Is your trust in science based on faith or based on science?

What I mean is this: how much do you actually know about the science most atheists parrot? Most atheists know as little science as most Christians know as little theology. Just as a Christian trusts his priest to tell him what he believes, an atheist trusts scientists with a Ph.D. tacked to their name to tell them what they believe. But how many times have the scientists turned out to be wrong? I only ask this because it seems this is central to the problem that most atheists have. They are repulsed by the phrase “believe” – they are addicted instead to the phrase “know”. But honestly, do you really know, or are you just believing what you’re told? I would like to remind you that in the 1970′s the scientists of the day were seriously concerned that we were about to enter an ice age, and less than 30 years later they are now convinced Earth is about to turn into a desert.

Unless you’ve observed something yourself, or observed and interpreted the evidence yourself and drew your own conclusions, you are just as guilty as faith as any religious person.

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Religion (and the Catholic Church in particular) is.

Are we now?  And enslaving women too?   My, we've been busy.

Don't forget that we're responsible for most war, genocide, famine, and natural disasters, while we were lopping off the heads of everyone who didn't own a copy of the vulgate bible for a thousand years.

Surely we ate the babies of atheists too?

Haven't bothered to read about the Magdalene laundries in Ireland, Prof? Or just ignoring them as you do anything that reflects badly on your religious preferences?

I can't wait for your explanation of how the Catholic Church is lily-clean on this one. No doubt you'll blame the Irish government and say they were forcing the Church to hold those women against their will.

"In Ireland, such asylums were known as Magdalene laundries where it is estimated that, since their inception, up to 30,000 women had been incarcerated. The last such institution in Ireland closed in 1996"

Wasn't that the same year that Mother Church finally admitted that Galileo, in the 1600's, had been right?

But as one might expect, the ever ready Catholic League has a defense ready: "LIES OF THE MAGDALENE LAUNDRIES" - available for five bucks!

Now there's a thought I had not considered. Do you think that Prof Bob might be the legendary second member of the Catholic League?

I confess I know almost nothing about Magdalene Laundries, @Dave G.  I do know that Catholics of all sorts have committed every variety of heinous crime throughout the centuries, just as humans of all sorts and every group have done.   We're human.

Blacks/African Americans here in the U.S. have committed all sorts of terrible rape and murder.  Statistically more than the general population if we look at conviction rate.   However, it would be nonsensical to say that Blacks/African Americans abuse women.

Scientists, too, have done all kinds of terrible things.  Built (and are still building) weapons of mass destruction, conducted experiments with deadly diseases on unsuspecting poor black people, committed research fraud, supported eugenics.   Yet it would be nonsensical to say that Science or the scientific community is corrupt and inhumane.

It's true that you will find people who will collect anecdotes of all the bad things blacks/African Americans have done over 50 years and point with alarm at them.  Every time you deny their claim they will find another case of blacks/African Americans committing crimes, as if just one more case will be enough to prove their point.  Often enough they will be willing to convict blacks/African Americans even when they are innocent. 

I'm sure we both know people who do the same thing with Science, collecting every report from every source about scientific fraud or overreach or bad behavior, to justify denying what is really good science.

So yep, Catholics have done all sorts of vile, evil things.  You can point to cases from 20 centuries.  Do it often enough and you'll start to imagine that we were executing everyone with a Greek bible for a thousand years.  That's how prejudice works.

As an aside, I'm curious what you think about how the U.S. is handling this particular societal problem of poor, lost women who become prostitutes and drug addicts and petty criminals?  Here we actually incarcerate them in real prisons, by the drove, where there is plenty of real abuse that enjoys considerable legal protection.  In fact, we're the most incarcerated nation in the history of the world.  Do you honestly think that secular democratic solution is better?

Prof here is a post on the laundries for your education.

Ah, the famous, "We're not the only ones --" defense!

@Arch - clinically, it's called 'deflection'

Ah, the famous, "We're not the only ones --" defense!

AKA "So's your old man."

Nice deflection attempt, Bob. That you are unable to distinguish between an organization and a group of people whose only unifying connection is their skin color creates grave doubts about your reasoning capability.

Your dishonesty is getting very wearying.

"Yet, perhaps, maybe, Newton's ideas might still be useful?"

Could you mean Newton's laws of motion, or his notes on alchemy, which he pursued for much of the later days of his virgin life? (He believed women were nasty!)

We are nasty!


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