Most of my friends on Facebook are my old christian friends. I find that I cannot post anything even remotely atheist in nature without being drug into a debate. At first I thought, I figured it out, when I tell them what I have learned the facts are irrefutable that the Bible is fake. Well, as you all know, it does not work that way.
I have debated science and logic to them. Anytime they are stumped they start personally attacking me and ignore the question. I then started a period of using solely the Bible alone to refute the Bible. They would debate whatever I say with other Bible verses. When I point out that the reason I can use one verse to refute the Bible and they can use another is because they contradict each other, they again get angry and start personal attacks.
In my town there are not many atheist. It is a small town in texas and everyone is a christian. I think they actually talked about me in the "mega church" here that I used to be a member of because a lot of the group leaders added me. At least this group has a scientific, biblical and historical knowledge enough to have a decent debate with. They refrain from personal attacks for the most part and actually try to answer my points, with backhanded sudo science of course. They do however often say things like "You have to be a moron to not see irreducible complexity as proof God exists". Or pretentious statements like "Well you yourself say they are just theories. It sounds like you dont know what to believe. It is odd that we do not have the problem of doubt and you do. Based on that, who do you think is right." But then they go on to debating again.
I thought there was hope for them since they dont completely have their head in the sand. Which is why I continued to discuss the matter with them even though I found it frustrating. Yesterday we were in a debate that was about their proof of a creator. They keep trying to prove intelligent design as if that would prove the Bible and Jesus despite the fallacy of the Biblical creation story. I proposed that if the world was created by intelligent design and they could completely prove their theory of the earth being old but created by God and had the seed of DNA planted in the first cell by God, then they will have done what I cannot. Proven that the Bible is false. They would have proven a creator created the universe but not in the way the Bible says he did therefore it is a different God and they are either worshiping the false god of jehovah, or the false creator God that they themselves have proven are two different people. They are actually trying to disprove the Bible as much as I am and their facts they are finding for an intelligent designer at the start of the big bang are only confirming the bible is a lie.
I thought they would be like "O wow, you are right. Well we know there is a creator but it is not the God of abraham so I guess we are diest and didn't realize it." Nope, full blown anger and hatred towards me ensued. The debate went form being civil to being a debate with ignorant angry christians all over again. I guess the only difference is they knew more than most christians. So it took them longer to run out of material before they got stumped and resorted to anger.
I dont see the point anymore. They sot me out and always invited me to their debates to be "the other side of the argument" aka the person they are trying to save. I thought they were willing to reason. I guess not. Christians are hopeless.
Should I even keep trying to show them the answers or should I give up? I was once exactly like them. Super devout. I keep thinking If they knew what I do they would see, but they are blind and dont want it any other way.
I'm misquoting here, but I'll say it anyway. Debating Xtians is like playing chess with pigeons. You may be an expert and play the game perfectly, but the pigeon/Xtian will just knock over the pieces, shit on the board and declare himself the winner.
Eventually, if pressed, any Xtian will have to fall back on "Because the Bible says so." Because they can't continue to argue their position on the basis of facts and logic. Reality has not just a liberal bias, but an atheist one as well.
I have to admit I didn't always stay civil. Once when I had a christian resort back to "Because the bible says so" I asked if the guys wife was a virgin when they got married, because if she was not, the Bible says I should shone her to death. "Should I follow the Bible on this one as well?" That didn't go over very well. Not my proudest moment, but also one of my proudest moments. Apparently we are suppose to throw out the part of stoning women, but we are suppose to keep the part of stoning homosexuals.
As well we should stone to death people wearing mixed fibers, and almost everyone is wearing a poly-cotton blend in their socks at the very least. And any kid who disrespects his parents, anyone eating shrimp or beef stroganoff. Can't have anyone eating meat cooked in it's mother's milk now, can we? It says so in the Bible! Get the stones!!!
I don't feel the need to be polite or respectful to anyone using the "Bible says so," argument. Fuck those assholes.
@Artor - RE: ""Because the Bible says so."
So the REAL question becomes who wrote the Bible and how reliable and knowledgeable were they, and what was their agenda?
BTW - loved the pigeon analogy --
Try this with your puppy not a pigeon!
BLAH BLAH BLAH she just rolls her bright dark eyes and opens her mouth, 'cookie!'
They want to play, run around the yard chasing chickens and then have a long nap. A diety does not seem to be involved. I can get ignored during thier play. They are just 'being' in the world.
'god' I hope it doesn't rain...LOL
It seems doubtful that 'reality' could have any concern for a liberal or atheist bias, it just is. It is us that bring that bias to life. Sadly 'god' is not available for comment, so must be brought into guestion/psudo-existence by folks that must act as representatives/proxy. Unlike a stock holders meeting(hopefully), the proxys of the 'god' concept have very little if anything to show for their investment, I for one would like to see the books. Maybe the 'god' concept is more like a scam, whole populations investing vast sums of lives, money, and other resources, dieing off one by one to be replaced with whole new generations of the same, and none the wiser.
If it is a scam, it has worked beautifully...;o(
The way I see these things is, if they can't stand what they're seeing you post, they can take you off their list. I actually had some old friends from my former branch of faith remove me from their lists because I had posted something involving evolution. If that's how they really feel, then I didn't want them around, anyway.
I also have some friends who are Christian or believe in some kind of god or another that enjoy having healthy debates with me. We exchange opposing ideas, but do it respectfully. Sadly, most people of faith are not so open minded and respectful... However, it's those people whose minds will likely never be changed, even if they had every shred of evidence and proof that their god didn't exist all right there in front of them.
It makes no difference what you say. In their minds they will always have won because they are still believers. It's a waste of time arguing with them. They really believe the creationist toilet science plus it's real work understanding true science. They are not going to put forth the effort to understand something that will disprove everything they believe. They may be willing to tear down your house but not their own!
Your best bet is to talk to people who ask about it and are serious about learning, not converting you. If you want to talk to people about it, you may as well start a local group or an internet page. Good luck.
Brian Sellers hit on an important point about Christians having different motivations for debating. I think in your specific situation it might be bordering on pointless to debate your old friends, but as Brian says, if nothing else it is generally worthwhile to keep exposing their faulty rhetoric and sophistry.
When you do come across a person, though -- especially a young person -- who is genuinely interested in your beliefs and would like to discuss them, I think it's vitally important to give that person your time and attention. You might be the only person they know in real life who thinks that way (especially in your small Texas town). Certainly they can find all the information they need and more on the internet, but its not the same as knowing someone personally who is living proof that atheists are not angry, baby-eating communists, but smart, productive people.
I have come to the place where, I just want to have a nice day, I quess it was because of blood pressure issues. I would rather laugh than yell, smile than point, and be kind than think ill.
Collecting just one more instance of crazyness, just keeps the blood boiling, the guts churning, and the mind spending excessive time in logic computations and linguistic creativity.
Christians are mostly preaching to their own congregations.
your post is long, i'm sorry that i don't have time to read it
but regarding title and question, from my experience is yes we should debate with christians but those who are logical, and you can judge that at the moment depending on the situation. i mean depending on your interest.
but if a logical christian -where i never found- discuss any matter with me, i'll discuss it to the max.
Speaking for myself, I just focus on;
1- not taking it too seriously. I have fun with it, so the frustration stays minimal.
2- not looking for conversion. It's not likely they will change, but it can effect 3rd parties listening in.
3- practice makes perfect. I've been moving away from a logic based argument, and have been playing with a moral, emotional based argument. For example, I'll use the verses from Psalms and Hosea about smashing children on rocks, and 'ripping up' pregnant women, then give a 'disappointed parent' look and say something like "THIS is where you get your moral foundation from? tsk.. tsk.. for shame."
all part of the fun