Hi all,

I think we have to "fight" against religions, for so many reasons.

But do we have to deprive people of something they have inegrated very deep in their lives, in which they find support, comfort, that make their lives more bearable; that something being beliefs, meaning and purpose in existence ?

I think that atheists have to be humanists. Some believers did not have any oportunity not to believe from the start, being raised in a religious context, but some others accepted (i prefer accept rather than choose) to believe later, as adults.

I am strongly against religious education, especially of young ones, i compare this to a mind rape. But once someone has found religious useful to him, and that it makes him happier, is it a good thing to try and make him quit believing ?

I'm sure we all atheists feel the lack of meaning & purpose of existence. But i don't think everyone has what it takes, from what he experienced to his very nature, to bear the weight of void.

While we criticize the lack of tolerance of religions, aren't we doing something similar when trying to convince a believer ?

So is there any legitimacy in exposing our arguments against beliefs, shouldn't we fight on another ground? Pure education? Religions rather beliefs ?


 

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Meaning and purpose, of course i try to find and make some. But i am a bit lost about all that huge universe that at some point comes to be populated with life ... how unlucky is life, that when it becomes intelligent enough, discovers that it is doomed !

I've never held religious belief in all my life, which made it easier to keep transitioning away from thousands of years of built up silliness on what life should be, toward a simple appreciation of what life is. We are neither doomed nor unlucky, but merely are what we are.

"how unlucky is life, that when it becomes intelligent enough, discovers that it is doomed"

That is very insightful!

.

"That is very insightful!"

THAT is worth repeating.

"how unlucky is life, that when it becomes intelligent enough, discovers that it is doomed !"

@PasSuivre:

" ... how unlucky is life, that when it becomes intelligent enough, discovers that it is doomed !"

Luck???

I would restate in this manner:

How fortunate is life, that when it becomes intelligent enough, discovers that it is doomed !

I find in invigorating and empowering to know that I have an unknown finite amount of time to experience my life.

Hence I bought another motorcycle,

Oh, how wonderful and exciting a finite life is, 2 weeks of ownership, 2 rain showers, 2,000 miles and one worn-out rear tire, whoopee...life is for living, screw those waiting for an afterlife they're missing the good stuff. :)

Unless we are sufficiently audacious as to appoint ourselves the "Thought Police," people have every right to believe however they choose. I would never try to push my beliefs on another, but at the same time, I'm never too shy to state those beliefs if the conversation warrants it.

"I'm sure we all atheists feel the lack of meaning & purpose of existence."

I don't agree that life has no meaning or purpose - it has whatever meaning I assign it, because that which is meaningful to me, may not be to another.

 

Yes I believe that there is a right to believe -

"I'm sure we all atheists feel the lack of meaning & purpose of existence."

Yes - I believe that one eventually catches up on you.

Because there is no purpose to it and the meaning is whatever you are doing to keep you occupied from thinking about it - yet.

is it a good thing to try and make him quit believing ?

No

"We need a better understanding of human nature because the only real danger that exists is man himself. He is the great danger and we are pityfully unaware of it.

Carl Jung ~

That Carl, always the cock-eyed optimist!

I don't care what any grown adult has come to believe other than where such beliefs, lacking any basis in reason, cannot be persuaded by reason and then go on to cause the believer to make decisions that are detrimental to my environment.

The vast majority of religious believers only view their behavior as relevant when said behaviors are condemned or proscribed by their religion.  Given that most religions have anachronistic value sets, this leaves us with a large segment of the religious population (which in turn is a HUGE segment of the world population) that is ill equipped to take part in modern democracy.

That being said, I believe we all have the right to our own beliefs, but I feel there should be a test of evidence evaluation skills before anyone gets a card that says they are an adult who can sign contracts, buy property, drive a car, and/or vote.

Is this question roughly equal to, 'do we have a right to be nutty?'

Who says what is 'nutty'?

After 58 years, I have noticed that the term 'normal' is very over used!

Pick your church, corporation, cult, to determine the type of 'normal' you want to live. 

After 58 years, I have noticed that the term 'normal' is very over used!

And also poorly defined in many contexts.

My position on religion in general is as follows. I respect your right to believe in the fashionable god of your indoctrination. I respect your right to have a place of worship (as long as my taxes are not used to pay for it) and to practice the aspects of your religion in that place of worship and in your home. I respect those rights and I would fight to defend them (within reason).

But don’t expect me to respect your religion as such because in my opinion your religion (I’m thinking of the big three) is not worthy of respect. It’s intellectually dishonest, socially manipulative, potentially murderous, and sexually discriminate. That’s my opinion and I ask you to respect it. Furthermore, I reserve the right to say what I think, to mock the social phenomenon that your religion is and to say things about it that you find offensive. Because your religion is about what you believe, whereas my opinion is about what I think. What you think as a christian (for example) is of no interest to me because it is by definition biased and irrational, and therefore totally irrelevant to the world I live in.

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