Just popping back in Mikey, because I have nothing better to do at the moment.
RE: "4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain" - in Gen, your god ordered Man to eat grass, leaves, "herbs of the field" and such, so Cain brought him a Vegan sacrifice, proving his loyalty to the word of his god; Able brought him lamb fat, and it's really hard to get a lamb to part with it's fat without liposuction, which hadn't been invented yet. So Cain followed the rules, and Abel killed, yet this god preferred lamb fat over vegan - what does that say about him?
RE: " 5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found" - actually, Gen says, "Enoch walked with god and he was not." That's a statement that does not necessarily imply cause and effect, unless one chooses to give it one. He could have fallen into a hole, he could have been eaten by an Asian lion, he could have just gotten tired of all those frazzlin' kids he'd recently begat, bouncing off the tent walls, and decided the better part of valor was to become a dead-beat dad, mosey on over to Nod and see if he couldn't hook up with one of those spontaneously-generated women that Cain had run into - we don't know, and can't make safe assumptions without far more evidence.
RE: "8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went."
Actually, in his book, Legends of the Jews, Louis Ginzberg collected ancient Jewish stories relating to all of the characters of the Bible, and it would seem that Abe's dad, Terah, had a little shop in Haran, where he sold idols. Abe had a problem with that, so one night, he set the shop on fire. His brother, Haran, ran into the shop to try to save his daddy's property and died in the fire, after which, Abe suddenly decided that leaving town sounded like a pretty good idea, and it wouldn't hurt his case if he told everyone that god ordered the quick exodus. You'll notice that later, Abe was adamant that Issac should NEVER, under any circumstances, go to Haran, and so his major domo was sent instead, to pick up 14-year old Rebekkah to become the blushing bride of 60-year old Ike - you've got your May-December romances, but in this case, we're talking March-December 29th!
Don't just buy into the words Michael, learn about the history of the words!
Well I've been studying history archeology and paleontology longer than a lot of people on this site have been alive. There are currently paradigm shattering discoveries being made that shatters the preconceived hunter gatherer concept:
Moreover 12,000 year old cities found near Dwarka. There were antediluvian civilizations upon the earth during the Wurm glaciation.
How can that possibly BE, Miguel? According to your Bible, the Universe is only 6,000 years old, and you're telling me there are structures in Turkey (which I already knew about, BTW) that are TWICE as old as the Universe? SAY it isn't SO!!!!!
Could the Bible possibly be WRONG?
(BTW - 3000 years of excavations in Egypt has uncovered absolutely no evidence of a "global" flood! - FYI)
You have not read my posts carefully:
"I know more than you think. No culture has myths and legends from the age of the Mega-fuana nor from the Wurm glaciation. This is astounding because these events are relatively recent. Yet every culture has a flood myths all over the world. But of legends of sabertooth tigers, woolly Mammoths, Giant Sloths or even the mega-fuana in Austria, non existent. Which is not to say Noah's flood immediately followed the age of the Mega-fuana, but what this does attest to , is an astounding gap in the history of man that collaborates Genesis: And the earth became dark and without form and darkness was upon the face of the depths. The age of the Mega-fuana ended with a global cataclysm. Possibly an Asteroid strike. If you check your Hebrew dictionary, the world for "was" is also use for "became". Reading Genesis in Hebrew one is not swayed by transliterations and doctrinal dogma, as in English translations."
Our Genesis is apart from the Genesis of the Megafuana and its' various forms of hominids living simultaneously upon the earth:
Cro-Magnon, Neanderthal, Homo-Erectus and Hobbit man.
As I've said before Mikey, of course other cultures have their flood myths, as at one time or another, every area on Earth has been subject to a flood, but that doesn't mean they happened at the same time.
As for the flood of the fictional "Noah," there isn't enough water in, on, under, nor above the earth to flood the globe "15 cubits" (c.22.5 ft.) above the highest mountains. I have the math and can present it if you doubt me, but it will likely take up a whole page of this thread.
And just out of curiosity, why do you suppose the "global cataclysm" you mention, managed to miss that dragon your avatar is fighting?
Still you must answer, why is the mega-fuana absent from myths and legends?. My answer is that they are creatures of the prior Genesis that the principalities of the air were successful in having the men of that Genesis destroyed by incurring God's wrath. Such wrath we are incurring today. However we of this Genesis do have a deliverer.
Why are dragons and unicorns, and gyr-falcons, the sphinx, the phoenix part of our myths and legends - does that mean they're real? Did they miss the disaster that destroyed the men of your "First Genesis"?
My answer is that they were hunted to extinction before men learned to write. Check out the cave paintings, there are plenty of "Mega-Fauna" represented there. Men of that time couldn't write, but they could draw.
Do you really expect anyone to believe that cave-dwelling hunter-gatherers lived a sufficiently "sinful" life that they incurred your god's wrath? How could they do that without a guidebook, such as the Bible, to tell them what did and did not piss off your god?
That's my whole point. In addition to hunter gathers, civilization was going on and pretty advanced for example Catal huhuk, Jericho, Dwarka, Gopetki Tepe, during the Wurm Glaciation. Moreover writing has been found at sites such as Dwarka. So indeed, even during the Mega-fuana events have been recorded (we just can't decipher the writing). Moreover the trilithon stones in Lebonon with at least one stone tipping the scale near 1500 tons attest to a civilization moving stones that are at the limit of our capablities with our mechanized technology. This not even mentioning Puma Punku with massive stones cut to precision out of Durite. We are indeed challenged to perform this feat with our existing technology. Contractors interviewed have rendered it as impossible.
Your WHOLE POINT, Michael? You're trying to move the goal posts!
Your argument was that there were no "Mega-Fauna" myths, and I demonstrated that cave dwellers, though they had no written language, drew pictures (their form of literature) of "Mega-Fauna," proving that what you said was false, and now you've stated that that was your point, and gone off on a completely different tangent. You amaze me, but not a lot.
These chains are getting confusing. Let me clarify.
Indeed writings and civilization have been found prior to the period covered by bible. circa. 9000-12000 BCE, so if we are related to the men of that age (Cro-magnon, who by the way had a higher volumetric brain capacity) then we had every oppurtunity to record myths and legends about the Mega-fuana. But we are not related to Cro-magnon, our volumetric cranial capacities are smaller. We can not decipher any thing that was written at Dwarka and other antidiluvian sites, because the writing is not ours. The writing is from a pre-existing genesis. This is why we do not have any of the Mega-fauna in our myths and legends. It is not because we could not write as you contend.
Mike - here's some of the Mega-fauna you claim never made it into the book of legends:
In 1920, the brothers Lutz and Heinz Heck, directors of the Berlin and Munich zoos, respectively, began a two-decade breeding experiment. Working with domestic cattle sought out for their “primitive” characteristics, they attempted to recreate “in appearance and behavior” the living likeness of the animals’ extinct wild ancestor: the aurochs. “Once found everywhere in Germany,” according to Lutz Heck, by the end of the Middle Ages the aurochs had largely succumbed to climate change, overhunting, and competition from domestic breeds.1 The last aurochs herds died out in the Polish-Lithuanian Union, where a documented population persisted under royal protection in Mazovia until the middle of the seventeenth century. Historical descriptions of these animals identified the aurochs as similar to domestic oxen, but entirely black, with a whitish stripe running down the back.2 More distant accounts emphasized their ferocity and imposing size. Julius Caesar described the aurochs of Germania as an elephantine creature prone to unprovoked attack.
more from Michael Wang at Cabinet here (http://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/45/wang.php).
I'm puzzled. What is the "preconceived hunter gatherer concept" that Gobekli Tepe supposedly shatters? Yes, it may be the oldest known civilization (so old that it shatters the Biblical notion of the age of the universe), but just because there was an early civilization in Turkey it doesn't follow that everywhere else hunting and gathering wasn't going on.