With todays Faithful lets verbalize the meaning they have made it, Faith, "Pretending to know things you don't know."
The statement we have all heard "I don't have enough Faith to be an atheist", let's flesh that out or I don’t pretend to know things I don’t know enough to be a person who doesn’t pretend to know things he doesn't know with regards to a creator of the universe.
1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. 4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. 5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
17By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. 20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come. 21By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff. 22By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
23By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment. 24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; 25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; 26Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. 27By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. 28Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them. 29By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
30By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days. 31By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: 33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: 36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: 37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; 38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
@Michael - you forgot a couple:
40) A wet bird never flies at night.
41) Always be sincere, whether you mean it or not.
Yeah, Mike, I'm making fun of you, because to take my time and effort to refute your claims, which refutation you will never bother to read, much less actually consider, makes such effort a total waste of my time.
Biblical scholars, far more learned than you, all maintain that Abe, Ike and Jake are fictional characters invented in 950 BCE, in order to tell a story the illiterate people of the time could understand. The Noah's Ark story is a plagiarized version of Utanapishtim's story of a flood in his own time in Mesopotamia, which covered three counties, as opposed to the entire globe, to a depth of 15 cubits. It ends with Utanapishtim sending out birds and offering a sacrifice, of which, the gods "smelled the sweet savor," which phrase is copied exactly in Genesis. Utanapishtim's story is featured in "The Epic of Gilgamesh, written 300 years before the ficticious "Noah" was reputed to have lived.
The city of Jericho was a ruins, a totally abandoned city, long before "Joshua," who was likely also fictional, was alleged to have lived.
Clearly you believe what you read, instead of thinking for yourself - I see no difference between you and an Islamic extremist - different books, identical mindset..
I know more than you think. No culture has myths and legends from the age of the Mega-fuana nor from the Wurm glaciation. This is astounding because these events are relatively recent. Yet every culture has a flood myths all over the world. But of legends of sabertooth tigers, woolly Mammoths, Giant Sloths or even the mega-fuana in Austria, non existent. Which is not to say Noah's flood immediately followed the age of the Mega-fuana, but what this does attest to , is an astounding gap in the history of man that collaborates Genesis: And the earth became dark and without form and darkness was upon the face of the depths. The age of the Mega-fuana ended with a global cataclysm. Possibly an Asteroid strike. If you check your Hebrew dictionary, the world for "was" is also use for "became". Reading Genesis in Hebrew one is not swayed by transliterations and doctrinal dogma, as in English translations.
Clearly you know less thanb YOU think!
Under what rock do you live Michael? Woolly mammoths were hunted to extinction by North American Native Americans - where have you been, bible school?
Nearly every culture has a flood story, simply because at one time or another, every culture has had a flood, but not at the SAME time. There is not enough water in, on, above, or under the earth to cover the globe sufficiently to cover "the highest mountains." The actual flood, that made it into Genesis, occurred in Mesopotamia in 2900 BCE (that would be about 300 years before your Noah had his own version), and it covered three of what we would call today, counties, to a depth of 15 cubits, or 22.5 feet. When the Hebrews decided to steal the story and make it their own, suddenly the whole eaarth was covered to the highest mountain, then 15 cubits above that. Just like when fishermen get together, the first liar doesn't stand a chance.
If you'd get your nose out of your religious books and read some actual history books, you just might learn something.
I am afraid your knowledge is a little out dated. I don't know where to being to bring you up to date. First and foremost, there were not hunted to extinction by the American Indians. That theory got dispelled years ago. Even if you are referring to Clovis people, even that theory has no foundation.
Clearly you don't live on the same planet that we do. I'm curious as to why that dragon your avatar is fighting, wasn't drowned in the "global flood" you believe occurred --
Just popping back in Mikey, because I have nothing better to do at the moment.
RE: "4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain" - in Gen, your god ordered Man to eat grass, leaves, "herbs of the field" and such, so Cain brought him a Vegan sacrifice, proving his loyalty to the word of his god; Able brought him lamb fat, and it's really hard to get a lamb to part with it's fat without liposuction, which hadn't been invented yet. So Cain followed the rules, and Abel killed, yet this god preferred lamb fat over vegan - what does that say about him?
RE: " 5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found" - actually, Gen says, "Enoch walked with god and he was not." That's a statement that does not necessarily imply cause and effect, unless one chooses to give it one. He could have fallen into a hole, he could have been eaten by an Asian lion, he could have just gotten tired of all those frazzlin' kids he'd recently begat, bouncing off the tent walls, and decided the better part of valor was to become a dead-beat dad, mosey on over to Nod and see if he couldn't hook up with one of those spontaneously-generated women that Cain had run into - we don't know, and can't make safe assumptions without far more evidence.
RE: "8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went."
Actually, in his book, Legends of the Jews, Louis Ginzberg collected ancient Jewish stories relating to all of the characters of the Bible, and it would seem that Abe's dad, Terah, had a little shop in Haran, where he sold idols. Abe had a problem with that, so one night, he set the shop on fire. His brother, Haran, ran into the shop to try to save his daddy's property and died in the fire, after which, Abe suddenly decided that leaving town sounded like a pretty good idea, and it wouldn't hurt his case if he told everyone that god ordered the quick exodus. You'll notice that later, Abe was adamant that Issac should NEVER, under any circumstances, go to Haran, and so his major domo was sent instead, to pick up 14-year old Rebekkah to become the blushing bride of 60-year old Ike - you've got your May-December romances, but in this case, we're talking March-December 29th!
Don't just buy into the words Michael, learn about the history of the words!
Well I've been studying history archeology and paleontology longer than a lot of people on this site have been alive. There are currently paradigm shattering discoveries being made that shatters the preconceived hunter gatherer concept:
Moreover 12,000 year old cities found near Dwarka. There were antediluvian civilizations upon the earth during the Wurm glaciation.
How can that possibly BE, Miguel? According to your Bible, the Universe is only 6,000 years old, and you're telling me there are structures in Turkey (which I already knew about, BTW) that are TWICE as old as the Universe? SAY it isn't SO!!!!!
Could the Bible possibly be WRONG?
(BTW - 3000 years of excavations in Egypt has uncovered absolutely no evidence of a "global" flood! - FYI)
You have not read my posts carefully:
"I know more than you think. No culture has myths and legends from the age of the Mega-fuana nor from the Wurm glaciation. This is astounding because these events are relatively recent. Yet every culture has a flood myths all over the world. But of legends of sabertooth tigers, woolly Mammoths, Giant Sloths or even the mega-fuana in Austria, non existent. Which is not to say Noah's flood immediately followed the age of the Mega-fuana, but what this does attest to , is an astounding gap in the history of man that collaborates Genesis: And the earth became dark and without form and darkness was upon the face of the depths. The age of the Mega-fuana ended with a global cataclysm. Possibly an Asteroid strike. If you check your Hebrew dictionary, the world for "was" is also use for "became". Reading Genesis in Hebrew one is not swayed by transliterations and doctrinal dogma, as in English translations."
Our Genesis is apart from the Genesis of the Megafuana and its' various forms of hominids living simultaneously upon the earth:
Cro-Magnon, Neanderthal, Homo-Erectus and Hobbit man.
As I've said before Mikey, of course other cultures have their flood myths, as at one time or another, every area on Earth has been subject to a flood, but that doesn't mean they happened at the same time.
As for the flood of the fictional "Noah," there isn't enough water in, on, under, nor above the earth to flood the globe "15 cubits" (c.22.5 ft.) above the highest mountains. I have the math and can present it if you doubt me, but it will likely take up a whole page of this thread.
And just out of curiosity, why do you suppose the "global cataclysm" you mention, managed to miss that dragon your avatar is fighting?