In the post Cleansing the Sinner I asked could Christians show me how I could come to know their God. I was finding it very difficult to get anyone to explain anything about Him to me. If Christians claim that they base their beliefs on something more than faith could they please tell me what evidence they have to support the claim that their God does indeed exist.
Then Jeff showed some understanding of what I was repeatedly asking for by saying:
I will admit, it does require some faith to believe Jesus is God. Faith, however, does not mean there is an absence of evidence.
I see this as an honest answer. I get the faith part. However I contend that there is a complete lack of evidence and that is the main reason I am an atheist. So if it not absent please tell me what it is. What evidence have you for your God’s existence. The Bible is not evidence. It is the claim for but not the proof of anything. If you can persuade me with your evidence I will become a Christian.
"it does require some faith to believe Jesus is God. Faith, however, does not mean there is an absence of evidence."
- @Jeff, can you tell us about the various aspects of your faith that you have faith in? Jesus is God, what other things?
And if you need faith to believe, may I ask how you can tell what is believable?
But faith can also mean that you are justified in placing your trust in something. I have faith in my computer because it works. I believe in general we have faith in things because they work - they do the job they are supposed to do, or they are effective, or in some sense truthful.
You don't have faith in your computer, you have knowledge that your computer works. Faith in this context means belief without scientific evidence.
"you have knowledge that your computer works."
- that's why I have faith in it.
That's not faith; that's inductive reasoning.
@Simon: "you have knowledge that your computer works."
"- that's why I have faith in it. "
Do you pray to it for more pixels?
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
synonyms: trust, belief, confidence, conviction, credence, reliance, dependence; optimism, hopefulness, hope, expectation
strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
synonyms: religion, church, sect, denomination, persuasion, religious persuasion, religious belief, belief, code of belief, ideology, creed, teaching, dogma, doctrine
I'm really saying that those two definitions are linked: the first justifies the second. The first is the property of nature whereby all organisms have the inbuilt tendency to thrive under the right conditions.
This definition of "faith" is describing two separate magisteria. The first does not justify the second.
But if the first is based on something real, that works, then it is reasonable to base the second on the first.
"But if the first is based on something real, that works, then it is reasonable to base the second on the first. "
How can trying to base an unreal second premise on the real first premise ever, ever, ever be reasonable to reason based thought?
First premise: Green is a real color.
Second premise: Leprechauns are green.
Therefore Leprechauns are Real.
Who among us would consider that a reasoned conclusion?
It's more a case of 1) "leprechauns are green", 2) here is a group of people who celebrate the greenness of leprechauns.
If 1) is true, and the group of people in 2) enjoy greenness, then they are justified in celebrating the greenness of leprechauns, because it is real.