I want your honest opinions here. Please read the following link about why men rape.


I will be honest. The thought that this might be true is freeing. I am recovering from multiple rapes throughout my life. For the past 24 hours I have been very sick. I have been retraumatized and now I am trying to get centered to where I feel safe again. I don't feel safe right now. I want to know why so many men have raped me. Why??? So I just googled "why men rape" and I found this article. It seems like a theory that has been dismissed, yet it is the first time I have ever read that rape is an evolutionary adaptation to mating. Do you realize how freeing this is for me????? If this is true then it really does mean that 1. I am truly NOT to blame, and 2. I am not a "victim" of violence. I know that probably doesn't make sense to you, but in a twisted sort of way it gives me my power back to accept that the men who have hurt me throughout my life.....all of them....were doing so because of an evolutionary drive, not because there was or is anything wrong with ME!

For years I have been told that MY boundaries are weak. And I am sure (I know) this is true. But I am not any more "weak" or "soft" than many women, and I am sick of racking my brain trying to figure out what I did wrong and how to "fix" myself. What if I don't need fixing? What if I am just fine? What if WE need to take a look as a society to realize our own understanding of rape is incomplete? I understand the worry that sex offenders will use this defense to their benefit, but the current judicial system here in the U.S really does no justice. Rapists are rarely prosecuted anyway. What if it REALLY is not my fault.....but furthermore.....what of there isn't a DAMN thing wrong with me?

Do you think rape is an evolved adaptation as this article suggests? Or is it an act of violence as we have always been told? Or am I just too fucked up to know what I'm saying right now? I am sick, and tired, and I am afraid to face the world, because I don't feel safe at all. So I don't know if anyone even can identify with me. I don't know.

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Belle, I don't see any incompatibility between being cautious and holding the rapist to account. 

We advise people to take precautions against burglary, carjacking, and ID theft. We do the same as regards rape. We also prosecute offenders when there is evidence to do so. 

Explain the difference that makes advising women to take precautions against rape different than giving advice on how to avoid the other crimes.

If nothing happened in the case you described, you need a lawyer or a legal advocate of some sort to put pressure on the authorities. 

On the other hand, a rape kit doesn't really PROVE rape, it just proves sex occurred. If it's a "he said, she said" case, it gets very difficult to prove to legal satisfaction that a rape occurred, since we all know that there are women who want and ask for it to be rough.

I met one young woman who told me she could only orgasm "while being taken" by a man who would ignore her protestations.

You don't have to be careful.  You "should" be careful if you wish to be safer than you normally would if you followed a life of being careless. 

This isn't a perfect world where women can do whatever they want, whenever they want.  Womens actions have consequences.  It's the way things are. 

I think women have a strange misunderstanding of men.  Some men are in fact like predatory animals, thirsting for violence and blood and rape and murder.  

You wouldn't walk into a wild den of Lions wearing a meat dress, therefore you should also understand that you shouldn't make yourself vulnerable in certain situations where potential men-animals will be able to take advantage of you. 

I wish I could walk around a bad part of town with 100 dollar bills hanging out of all of my pockets.

Yes, and to ask the question "Why can I not do so?" seems like a pointless question.  Wouldn't you agree?

It would also seem pointless to me to make an argument that I should be allowed to, and the men who jump me should be taught not to do it.

Stephen Pinker has good stuff on this in his books, this is from an interview: 

The popular explanation for the cause of rape is that rape is about power; rather than sex or attraction or anything else. In The Blank Slate you wrote:

I believe that the rape-is-not-about-sex doctrine will go down in history as an example of extraordinary popular delusions and the madness of crowds. It is preposterous on the face of it, does not deserve its sanctity, is contradicted by a mass of evidence, and is getting in the way of the only morally relevant goal surrounding rape, the effort to stamp it out.

From what I’ve read of behaviour studies – the causes of behaviour are very complex and there are zero behaviours except for rape that are explained by one single cause. Why is rape pretty much the only behaviour out there for which academics will accept only one single explanation? How does a delusion spread among people who should be immune to them?

It’s the “moralistic fallacy,” the idea that we should shape the facts in such a way as to point to the most morally desirable consequences.

In the case of rape, the fear was that if rape has a sexual motive, then it would be natural, hence good; and instinctive, hence unavoidable. Since rape is bad and ought to be stamped out, it cannot come from “natural” sexual motives. My own view is that these are non-sequiturs — rape is horrific no matter what its motives are, and we know that rates of rape can be reduced (in Better Angels I assemble statistics that US rates of rape are down by almost 80% since their peak).


I totally agree with Stephen Pinker here.  It never 'jived' with me, hearing that rape-is-not-about-sex doctrine.  

It feels wrong, very wrong.  I am sure some cases it's about domination or control but let's be totally honest.  Even totally consensual sex can sometimes be made more exciting with dominant/submissive role-play.  So to say it's "sex" doesn't always mean "Mutual loving caresses and gentle touches."  

So rape is obviously not role-play for the victim.  But the rapist is also obviously having sexual intercourse, whether it's consensual or not.  To say the rapist is raping for reasons other than sex implies that the rapist is getting 0% pleasure or drive from the act of the sexual experience or the thoughts of the sexual experience leading up to however the rapist forces the victim into submission.  

For instances when a girl is passed out, do we REALLY think the guy who rapes her while she is unconscious isn't thinking about the actual sex itself...he's just thinking about how much he's controlling and dominating her?  Come on now...how much domination and control can you exert over an unconscious body...?  But the feeling of her skin, the softness of her hair, her perfume, he body, that's all still there for the rapist.  Do we REALLY think he isn't enjoying any of that?  

The popular explanation for the cause of rape is that rape is about power; rather than sex or attraction or anything else. In The Blank Slate you wrote:

Sex is about power to a very great extent. The power of allure or seduction, the power of determination over resistance (not rape, but overcoming objections). Some people enjoy and even require experiencing or exerting that sort of power.

To say that old bumper sticker that "rape is about power not sex" misses the point of a lot of sex.

Interesting to think if the phrase:

"Sex is not about power, it is about sex" does or does not make sense. 

I claim it does not make sense as sex is very much about power, or powerless.  Dominant/submissive.  Aggressive/passive.  

Plenty of women love to be taken and controlled/directed/punished/taught while men love to control/direct/punish/teach, etc

Not to say the roles cannot be desired to be reversed, as there are plenty of times the female wishes to switch and take over, take control.  I doubt the same holds true for the man.  We don't directly WANT to be submissive, but we do enjoy the dominant side of our partner at the time.  Or perhaps we enjoy the power struggle, at least for me, I'll eventually take back the power and put her back into a submissive state after a fun struggle where she attempts to reclaim the power and then finally gives in and accepts that she cannot compete or win.  I feel like the woman enjoys that as well, having her power taken away during sex.

I wouldn't date a girl who isn't submissive to some extent.

So then, perhaps rape is in some sense an extension of the males desire to dominate and control without regard to consent or with regard to non-consent.  A hyper-form of sex.  Practically anyone will claim, and rightfully so, that rape is unhealthy/an abomination/an egregious break of the law and of the victims body, mind and spirit.  

But when you map rape and consensual sex out next to each other, they do match up to some extent, the differences being obvious:  The extent of the domination and control and the non-consent of the victim.  

Did I go wrong here?

"The next person I'm with will have a tall order to fill."

No pun intended, right?  Couldn't resist :P


On a more serious note, I think if you are going to equate rape to dominance and control, you can rightfully equate rape to consensual sex.  As consensual sex also is accompanied by plenty of dominance and control role-play.

Perhaps the word equate is too strong.  But there ARE similarities between the two.  That's perhaps closer to what I mean.  


When I say "Being taken", I do not mean disregard to their emotions/feelings/body. "Directed" is the term I use.  I wouldn't use "Forced".  I would use "Held down" but again, in a "directed" manner.  

If you describe your past sexual partners as "Forceful" I think there is definitely an issue you should address regarding those you choose.  

But you do hear plenty of girls and women say they like it when a guy doesn't hesitate when planning out a date.  To set the date time and place and to take out the decision from them.  They want the man to make the decision.  To take the drivers seat if you will. They are happy being the passenger.  They are content with giving the man "Head of the household" status.  They are excited and delighted to be pinned down, spanked, put into submissive positions.  

None of this means hitting them forcefully without consent or emotionally abusing them during sex or outside of sex.  I would never, ever do such a thing.  

But plenty of girls I have dated really , truly like being called a little slut or playfully slapped in the face.  Or pinned against a wall and held there in a helpless position with no chance of escape.  To have their hair tugged.  Essentially, to be put into submission in a healthy and consensual manner.  They can get severely turned on by the show of dominance from their partner.  A past girlfriend of mine said she would get extremely turned on because she knew I was expecting sex every time I saw her.  That struck me as a little peculiar lol, but she seemed perfectly normal to me.  Perhaps it made her feel sexy, wanted, desired.  

Sex can also be seen as playfighting.  It's fun, it's play.  Children playfight.  They don't actually attempt to beat the living shit out of each other (sometimes at least they might and find it fun) but they do fight each other.  Parents and children playfight as well.  There is something about 'fighting' in a playful manner that is fun.  This happens during sex as well.  Sex is a unification of so many instinctual aspects of human nature.  Pain, Pleasure, appetite, control, humor, love, affection.  


speaking as my own sample size of one (myself) I would much prefer to feel safe, loved, cared for, and respected

Certainly, rape is just about all about power, but so is a lot of actual sex. So, while rape may be about power, it doesn't follow logically that sex isn't about power.

Not all women are as about cuddly wuddly sex to the extent you are. I'll never forget the partner who on our first encounter said "Say really dirty things to me." It wasn't really in my nature, but being referred to as a slut and whore excited her. As I've said elsewhere, I met a girl who told me she couldn't orgasm without being taken by a man who would ignore her protestations.

Much as it would be nice to be able to sum things up with a catchphrase like "No means not," as a matter of fact it does not always work that way.

Well played ;)

I think the point is to show rape and consexual sex have things in common with each other - Not to in any way diminish the amount of trauma/violence/pain that a victim experiences.  

I don't think Unseen has in any way attempted to diminish your experience - He is only trying to shed light on what rape is from his own personal angle.  


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