Is equal pay the same as fair pay?

"Equal pay for equal work." Sounds good, but is that always fair?

It seems to me that equal pay for equal work is fair if the work truly is 100% equal, and if determining what equal work is is interpreted rather broadly.

Why do I say "broadly"? Because I think most business managers will agree that pay should reflect "value to the company" even more than work output.

What makes an employee valuable to the company? Willingness to 'go the extra mile' would be one thing. Willingness to stay late if needed, or come in on the weekend, for example.

Flexibility is another. Time flexibility as just mentioned would be one example, but also willingness to do what's asked even if it isn't in the job description is another. Willingness to travel when needed, especially on short notice. Willingness to relocate, if needed. 

Those things make one valuable to the company.

Agree or disagree?

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Permalink Reply by Belle Rose on April 5, 2016 at 8:44am
RE:What makes an employee valuable to the company? Willingness to 'go the extra mile' would be one thing. Willingness to stay late if needed, or come in on the weekend, for example.
Flexibility is another. Time flexibility as just mentioned would be one example, but also willingness to do what's asked even if it isn't in the job description is another. Willingness to travel when needed, especially on short notice. Willingness to relocate, if needed.
Those things make one valuable to the company.
Agree or disagree?

This is precisely what holds women back. We are the ones who have to tend to sick children and basically put our children first. So by those standards of being "flexible, willing to stay late" etc...if you have children that simply isn't going to happen unless you 1. Have a lot of support or 2. Can afford a reliable nanny (which usually means you have money).

I had the experience of working to fill in at a prestigious private school for a bit. There were about half a dozen kids who were needing to be picked up. Guess who picked them up? The mother? No. The father? No. The Au Par. I could not help myself from thinking to myself, "Must be nice to shirk your parental responsibilities onto someone else and only be a Mom when it is convenient for you." But I sort of realized that that is the ONLY way women get ahead - is if they have support. When it is "just you" your chances of getting ahead are slim to none.
Permalink Reply by Unseen on April 5, 2016 at 11:39am

This is precisely what holds women back

And precisely why you can't just look at what men make and use that as a justification for paying women the same. It's more complicated than that. 

The real comparison would be childless career women vs. men not female employees in general vs. men, because women generally will let their family responsibilities—which can include not just children but elderly parents—interfere with their job duties.

Permalink Reply by Unseen on April 5, 2016 at 7:57pm

In other words, a woman who's willing to make the same sort of choices and commitments that men in the same position make should make the same pay, assuming, of course, that she also produces as well. 

That is fair.

Permalink Reply by Belle Rose on April 5, 2016 at 8:31pm
I have worked in many different fields. I do not know of a time when I have been paid less for the exact same work as a male co-worker. I can think of SEVERAL instances where I actually made MORE for the same work simply because of my education level and that I am bilingual.

I can say however there have been MANY opportunities I have had to either pass up completely, or quit voluntarily (or both) due to being a mother of ONE small child. (imagine if it were more)...

Bottom line: Family holds women back.

I had my son in the context of a stable marriage relationship and never dreamed I would be a single mother. It wasn't supposed to be that way. Now, I am trying to find the right work/life/income balance to sustain us in an area where the cost of living is like a quarter higher than the rest of the US. It feels impossible. It is damn near impossible, but...here I am.
Permalink Reply by Unseen on April 5, 2016 at 9:08pm

Bottom line: Family holds women back.

Choices have consequences, some of them unforeseeable.

Permalink Reply by Pope Beanie on April 5, 2016 at 9:11pm

You're not actually saying that the consequences are fair, are you? You make it sound like anyone can just turn off the choice whenever they want to, regardless of its animal nature.

Permalink Reply by Unseen on April 5, 2016 at 9:24pm

Consequences are consequences. Neither fair nor unfair.

Permalink Reply by Belle Rose on April 6, 2016 at 9:42pm
Yep
Permalink Reply by Pope Beanie on April 7, 2016 at 3:53pm

I think it's wrong to sit back and say "that's just way it is and always has been". I know the world's not fair, but I'll advocate for fairness.

There have been a few stories recently about Icelandic single moms. Here's one of the older ones from a pro-woman publication.

Permalink Reply by Pope Beanie on April 5, 2016 at 4:06pm

I think it's not "fair" to pay women less just because that's been the tradition and wages have traditionally affected business bottom lines. Pure free market isn't necessarily fair, either. An equal pay law is necessary to make all businesses share the responsibility of affirmative action (which I admit is not a politically correct policy to have these days), instead of only the good and caring companies losing business to their less caring competition.

This would be less of an issue if more people had social safety nets in place, and I'm actually more in favor of changing the argument to "having equal health and other living benefits" (e.g. housing) than "having equal pay". That wording alone would boost the standard of living of (say) single moms, and give their kids a better head start in society.

Permalink Reply by Dustin on April 6, 2016 at 9:37pm

I dated a business major for a little bit.  She hated the feminist mantra about women being paid less than men meaning it's sexist.  She said it's because women basically suck at negotiating their salaries in interviews.  Men are more assertive and come prepared with evidence of other salaries, the ability to look their possible employer right in the face and tell them why they deserve more than the next guy.  

It's her view and doesn't make it right just because she is a woman.  But it's a different view than mainstream feminism speak about.  

Permalink Reply by Belle Rose on April 6, 2016 at 9:40pm
Women are not taught to assert themselves on a number of issues. I have a list. How much time do you have, lol.

But she is right.

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