I was deep in thought today at work, and remembered how I was told that I 'was formed in my mother's womb by God himself.' Here is Psalm 139:13-16 from the New Living Translation:
13 You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body
and knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex!
Your workmanship is marvelous—how well I know it.
15 You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion,
as I was woven together in the dark of the womb.
16 You saw me before I was born.
Every day of my life was recorded in your book.
Every moment was laid out
before a single day had passed.
If this is the case, let me throw a hypothetical (but not so hypothetical) at you. Let's say two gay atheist men get married. One worked on Wall St. and the other a very successful business man, therefore they are financially sound. They want children of their own and come up with a genius idea: to take one of their sperm samples, and an egg from the sister of the other, artificially inseminate, and the sister act as a surrogate mother. The money is there to cover all expenses, and the sister is more than supportive and decides to show her support by agreeing to carry the child to term.
1. Would this baby in the womb, being created by two people who 1) don't believe in God, and 2) are a practicing gay couple (the downfall of America according to Pat Robertson), still be totally built by God AND be included in God's ultimate plan?
2. Will the child still be a part of God's plan even though the child (male and female twins in this case) will most likely grow up to be atheist? According to the above excerpt from one great piece of fictional literature, yes.
3. So would it be fair to argue that atheism is a part of God's plan?
This 'hypothetical' is actually not hypothetical at all. A man I used to work for years ago was married to the man of his dreams and they went through with this. My boss's sister carried twins to term and bore them. What a fantastic story.
That is a fantastic story, thanks for sharing it.
From my (atheist) perspective I can try to argue from logic: God is omnipotent, therefore any plan God makes will be inclusive of all things, therefore atheism is part of God's plan.
Matt, I'm certainly glad to have known them. At the time I knew them I was a Christian and didn't agree with their lifestyle for obvious reasons. Now that I have been released from spiritual prison, I wish I had become better friends with them. They were fantastic (can't you tell I love that word?) human beings and despite my beliefs treated me as equal to everyone else. As a side note, I was one of only two straight guys working at this company. It opened my eyes and was a great experience.
I like your argument. It makes total sense. So going along with your argument, people who are born into an atheistic family and are taught to be atheist are condemned to hell according to god's plan. So therefore, we have no say in the matter. There are some bible quotes I can cite, and will gladly if you'd like. But why would god do that? Now that I am atheist, it was apparently his plan to condemn me to hell even before I was born? I can't believe in a god like that.
But if atheism is part of God's plan, then he is knowingly forcing nonbelievers to eternal damnation, thereby refuting his claim of loving the people he created.
I tried to argue against this point above. I don't think we would be 'forced' to be Atheists. Surely God has given each of us some sort of a sign ... most of us were born in Christian households. If free will exists , which in Christian doctrine it does but I think not in reality , then in the Christian doctrine , God is just accepting our decision to reject him or to not accept Jesus' forgiveness of sins.
No, people make up their own minds. However environment and spiritual predisposition can sway us. Yes he knows in advance who will succumb to these influences.
Even Adam and Eve were tested from the beginning. Man failing the test there after is more of the same and long heralded.
And this by no means implies that you will remain perfect, though that is the goal.
But rather, You become a high priest in the temple of your body continually interceding for your transgressions even as the Lord Jesus continues to intercede for us in God's Heavenly Sanctuary. In the limit we must receive in our heart's the spirit of the man from heaven crying, Abba, Father.
The Good news is that all men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
In fact, that was the singular purpose of the Laws of Moses , was to included all men under sin so that no one would glory in his presence. So that the way to him would be singular, that is through Christ. For if you believe in your heart, that He was manifested in flesh, Justified in spirited, Seen of angels, believed on in the world and was received on up to Glory and you speak this with your life and being, you shall be saved without manifesting any of the works of the Law.
Any plan that God has for human interaction kind of negates the concept of Free Will , surely?
How are we to know what God determines for us and what God does not? I have even heard God is remaining invisible to me so he can work through in his plan for me .... Christians have told me this before. They say to give it time and Jesus will reveal himself to me. I'm still waiting..........