Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Merlin Mercer on July 3, 2011 at 9:44pm

I'm glad you have a sense of humor.  If there is a hell, I'm going there in a handbasket.  With a fire resistant suit btw.

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Permalink Reply by matt.clerke on July 4, 2011 at 5:02am

If Hell is going to be filled with "yummy Atheist Flesh" then count me in!

Edit: thought I should clarify, I mean yummy in the way someone might say their lover is yummy...sounds better than eternity "with God" anyway.

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Permalink Reply by Ian Buchanan on July 4, 2011 at 8:42am

All the interesting people can be found in hell. If you're looking for the boring, mindless, Automatons for Christ (TM), you can find them in heaven. :-)

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Permalink Reply by matt.clerke on July 3, 2011 at 9:52pm

That is a fantastic story, thanks for sharing it.

 

From my (atheist) perspective I can try to argue from logic: God is omnipotent, therefore any plan God makes will be inclusive of all things, therefore atheism is part of God's plan.

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Permalink Reply by Merlin Mercer on July 3, 2011 at 10:18pm

Matt, I'm certainly glad to have known them.  At the time I knew them I was a Christian and didn't agree with their lifestyle for obvious reasons.  Now that I have been released from spiritual prison, I wish I had become better friends with them.  They were fantastic (can't you tell I love that word?) human beings and despite my beliefs treated me as equal to everyone else.  As a side note, I was one of only two straight guys working at this company.  It opened my eyes and was a great experience.

 

I like your argument.  It makes total sense.  So going along with your argument, people who are born into an atheistic family and are taught to be atheist are condemned to hell according to god's plan.  So therefore, we have no say in the matter.  There are some bible quotes I can cite, and will gladly if you'd like.  But why would god do that?  Now that I am atheist, it was apparently his plan to condemn me to hell even before I was born?  I can't believe in a god like that.

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Permalink Reply by matt.clerke on July 4, 2011 at 5:00am

"people who are born into an atheistic family and are taught to be atheist are condemned to hell according to god's plan." - Actually I think you find you can say that about all religions other than the specific one you are thinking about.....their god condemns them all.... this means that, assuming Catholic statistics are correct, about two thirds(or more) of the global population are destined for hell.

"taught to be atheist" - That's called indoctrination, something alot of atheists are against... personally I wasn't taught anything, might call it areligious upbringing maybe? it basically wasn't mentioned at home unless I brought it up, then I was told it was ultimately my choice.

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Permalink Reply by Justin on July 3, 2011 at 10:18pm

But if atheism is part of God's plan, then he is knowingly forcing nonbelievers to eternal damnation, thereby refuting his claim of loving the people he created.

 

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Permalink Reply by Merlin Mercer on July 3, 2011 at 10:20pm

Yes!  This is playing out better than I thought!  See my reply to Matt above.

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Permalink Reply by Dustin on July 3, 2011 at 10:43pm

I tried to argue against this point above.  I don't think we would be 'forced' to be Atheists.  Surely God has given each of us some sort of a sign ... most of us were born in Christian households.  If free will exists , which in Christian doctrine it does but I think not in reality , then in the Christian doctrine , God is just accepting our decision to reject him or to not accept Jesus' forgiveness of sins.  

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Michael on July 3, 2011 at 11:17pm

No, people make up their own minds. However environment and spiritual predisposition can sway us. Yes he knows in advance who will succumb to these influences. 

Even Adam and Eve were tested from the beginning. Man failing the test there after is more of the same and long heralded. 

And this by no means implies that you will remain perfect, though that is the goal.

But rather, You become a high priest in the temple of your body continually interceding for your transgressions even as the Lord Jesus continues to intercede for us in God's Heavenly Sanctuary. In the limit we must receive in our heart's the spirit of the man from heaven crying, Abba, Father. 

 

The Good news is that all men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

In fact, that was the singular purpose of the Laws of Moses , was to included all men under sin so that no one would glory in his presence. So that the way to him would be singular, that is through Christ. For if you believe in your heart, that He was manifested in flesh, Justified in spirited, Seen of angels, believed on in the world and was received on up to Glory and you speak this with your life and being, you shall be saved without manifesting any of the works of the Law.

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Permalink Reply by matt.clerke on July 4, 2011 at 5:01am

Does that surprise you? God committed some terrible atrocities in the Bible.... Global Infanticide springs to mind.

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Permalink Reply by Dustin on July 3, 2011 at 10:41pm

Any plan that God has for human interaction kind of negates the concept of Free Will , surely?  

 

How are we to know what God determines for us and what God does not?  I have even heard God is remaining invisible to me so he can work through in his plan for me .... Christians have told me this before.  They say to give it time and Jesus will reveal himself to me.  I'm still waiting.......... 

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