Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ryan E. Hoffman on May 31, 2011 at 9:46am

Why do atheists have to be "not ignorant"? All atheism is, is a non-belief in gods. Education, ignorance, closed mindedness, open mindedness, love, compassion, none of that is included in being an Atheist.

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Permalink Reply by Arcus on May 31, 2011 at 5:22pm

Because being ignorant is what religion does best. Atheists should be "better" than that and also encompass the above. Atheism is just a part of rationality and humanism. It's like saying you are a Christian but don't believe in God.

It's nonsense no true Scotsman would stand for. ;)

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Permalink Reply by Ryan E. Hoffman on May 31, 2011 at 7:00pm

I know plenty of Atheists that are ignorant and do not think critically. It may be a coincidence, and may be reflected in statistics, but it is not necessarily the case, nor should it be. As you say atheism is just a part of rationality and humanism, BUT it is also just a part of many other philosophies themselves and is not exclusive to rationality or humanism. It's essential to absurdism, nihilism, anarchism, communism, objectivism, etc. I get irritated when people try to refer to Atheism or Atheists as their own tribe of sorts. I don't think you were trying to make this point, but I think it should be said anyway: Humanism doesn't have a monopoly on non-belief.
If Clarissa had said that those claiming to be rationalists were just as ignorant, well that would be worthy of a discussion. This isn't. There are many different kinds of people who call themselves Atheist. It just means non-belief in a deity, and I will fight PZ Myers to the end about it.

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Permalink Reply by Mo Trauen on May 31, 2011 at 3:17pm

Clarissa,

 

Your post is fine in theory, but in fact the religious are beyond doubt about their beliefs even though there is no evidence except the evidence indicating that religion is made up.  Worse, their religion causes them to treat us badly and to treat the whole world badly.  So much so that they are a threat to it and us. 

 

http://goodatheistarguments.blogspot.com/2010/10/religion-cannot-ev...

 

Furthermore, I think the "need" they feel for religion, both emotionally and morally, was inculcated in them along with the belief in it.  In other words, they think they need it because they don't know any other way.  Admittedly, there are some people who have reached a point in their lives where trying to talk to them about it would be worse than a waste of time, but the need to talk to the others is real.

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Permalink Reply by Tammy on May 31, 2011 at 8:15pm

This could just be me but if there was even the slightest chance that God existed I still would not worship him or any God regardless of the outcome of my final destination. Any God that is that evil, sadistic, manipulative, and destructive deserves no blind obedience from me or anyone for that matter. And if he did exist and that possibility came true, which I don't think it would, but if it did and I had to "stand before God to be judged" he would have a lot to answer for.

 

I have always just had a hard time respecting something that does nothing to deserve it. Especially a being that can only be proven to exist within the mind or imagination I should say... Trees, the moon, sun, stars, rocks, and everything else I've ever heard as the argument of proof is not proof at all. A tree only proves the existence of a tree not the existence of a God. 

 

Sorry I just had an argument with my sister that tried to prove to me Gods existence with a tree. She has been at it for a week now and it's driving me insane.  So I apologize if I seem a little cross.

 

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Permalink Reply by Kirsten on May 31, 2011 at 10:44pm

Maybe add arrogance to your title. It seems to be the combination of the two that really fans the flames. 

"I am smart, so I am right and that means X!"

 

Ryan E. got it spot on. Atheism is simply a single position on a specific topic. It certainly does not give you a degree in Correct.  0% is arrogance for any idea. Space/time is a heck of a lot more complicated than the human brain can even really think about. Just search: universe hologram, if you need something weird. You have your five senses and a chemical brain to process the entirety of the universe! How the heck can we know anything? All we have in our tiny corner of the universe is probability based on human standards. 

 

For practicality's sake we all go with whatever evidence (or feeling) is most compelling to us. Chemical brain, yet again. The evidence of our senses show no proof of any human "god" being correct as presented, and disproves to varying degrees many religious claims. That's enough for me, and if someone wants to argue over the idea of 100% anything they're going to be wasting a lot of time. I don't debate belief, I debate the associated facts. Not much else makes any sense.

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Permalink Reply by R1Gami on June 1, 2011 at 1:21am

Well put.

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Permalink Reply by Clarissa Price on June 1, 2011 at 2:31pm

Thats because im agnostic. Hello. I have the views of an atheist but I look at ALL possibilities. Because one never truly knows.

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Permalink Reply by Ryan E. Hoffman on June 1, 2011 at 2:33pm

Yes, that's true. I hope you keep a door open for unicorns and fairies too. 

 

Atheists do not believe in a god. It says nothing about whether or not a god is out there. If a god is out there, we welcome the evidence. Most atheists leave a small possibility for the existence of a divine power, like .01 percent. I guess we're all agnostics too?

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Permalink Reply by Arcus on June 1, 2011 at 2:44pm

A=without

gnosis=knowledge

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Permalink Reply by Clarissa Price on June 1, 2011 at 2:45pm

Well maybe im just saying that im agnostic mainly because people like to say im not atheist. And I dont believe in 'God'. I prefer to not be called well anything because then people will look closely at the definition of said label and judge your views on that. I call myself agnostic so that I people don't say stuff like " keep a door open for unicorns and fairies too" Annoyingly hurtful thing to say. I'm sorry that I say theres a possibility for everything. A lot of people dont believe in string theory. But hey theres a possibility it exists. Call me crazy.

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Permalink Reply by Ryan E. Hoffman on June 1, 2011 at 2:51pm

i'm not a fan of labels myself. I don't understand what your point is though. You start by saying Atheists are ignorant too. Well, yes, there are some ignorant atheists, just like there are some ignorant Christians. Atheists don't have a special preference.

Then you say you're agnostic because you never truly know... well, sorry, but as someone said earlier, you can never truly know 100% of anything, all we have are facts from human perspective, and all our facts available point to that man made the idea of god just as he made the idea of unicorns, leprechauns and fairies. They're on the same level of thinking: magical, superstitious, without any evidence.

Now it seems like you're upset that people say you're not an atheist, so you call yourself agnostic, and you get your feelings hurt when this or that is said. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, but seriously, you're all over the place. What's your point?

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