If you are a non- believer, why be moral when no one is looking?

If you are a non- believer in, all that you do is being recorded in the heavens, why be moral when no one is looking?

If there are no records and no witness, why not do anything you want?


If no one sees you do it, then is it a deed not done?


If all of this is true, then why do we have a conscience, where did it come.


We are told in scriptures that our conscience is our natural way of doing God's will in the absence of his Law.

Views: 3984

Replies are closed for this discussion.

Replies to This Discussion

I have to disagree with you there, Evonda.

The pre-socialised child will indulge their un-monitored automatic responses to their environment.  The adult with damage to the forward-most parts of the frontal lobes (usually due to a motor vehicle accident or due to a particular kind of stroke) will do the same thing.  If something causes them pain they will lash out at whatever they think is causing it, without considering the ramifications.  If their automatic behavior causes them to make a mistake, then it will happen over and over again. 

Adults may be able to verbalize what is happening or predict that they will make a particular mistake at a particular point in a puzzle or activity, but they do not have the power to prevent it happening because they have no control over their automated and automatic behavior. 

Once these parts of the brain are destroyed there is no way to compensate for their loss.  The victim is permanently unable to do anything other than follow their automatic responses - which may be the end result of years of learning and practice or may simply be a knee jerk reaction to a strong stimulus. 

For example, a head-injured nurse who was asked to collect and test a patient's urine mystified her superiors when she consistently threw the urine in the toilet without testing it.  She could repeat the instructions perfectly and had no idea why she could not follow them.  A famous radio evangelist who was in a nursing home after a stroke which affected his frontal lobes would horrify Christians who visited him and found him openly masturbating or watched hitting staff people who accidentally bumped into him.  He was perfectly capable of murder if he were sufficiently provoked into a rage as he had no way of calming himself down or controlling his instinctual behavior to "protect" himself.

Humans, and other social animals, are actively taught how to suppress their instinctual responses when they are counter to the values and good of the group.  Their community will reinforce the learning by punishing them if they do not conform.  That is how "good" behavior is learned and the social conscience is formed. 

Remove the frontal lobes and the social teaching process and you have a biological entity that will act without thinking of consequences, even when the action will kill them.  When this failure of socialization is caused by genetic aberration the victims remove themselves from the gene pool, unless they are protected by society in such a way that they are given the chance  to breed or unless the impairment is not total (think of sociopaths who are capable of disguising their lack of appropriate socialization.)






Sociopathic personalities comprise the majority of CEO's of major corporations

Any evidence for this claim? Not saying that there aren't any, but 'a majority' is way off the mark. Which current CEOs would you label as sociopaths and why?

Her point is that morality is a brain function and that some people who suffered brain damage behave in strange and/or immoral ways. Nothing to do with accountability.

I deserve some of that, I think.  While what I said added to the discussion (I think) it was not entirely pertinent to what you said.  Sorry about that.  I make mistakes! 

It's my experience that most Atheists I know consider themselves serving a higher morality than religious people do. We often consider one of the worst effects of religion is that religion allows people to feel moral when they are actually highly immoral. Look at the violence in the World today. It's almost all performed in the name of some god, even the Christian God.

This would make me conclude that the closer someone claims to be to God, the less of a conscience they have.

A bit less eloquent than I'd put it, but I agree fully.

People are innately programmed to do mostly good, and the easiest way to make them do bad choices is to add religion.

Very well put.  I wish I'd said that.

Blowing yourself up for Allah or god and taking others with you. Murdering doctors at an abortion clinic, just because you think god says abortion is wrong. Not getting your child medical care or attention when they need it; do nothing but pray and then watch as your child slowly dies. Doing everything your god, prophet or scripture tells you, despite the fact that by doing it you will hurt many people. That is the effect of abiding to religion's morals.
Wow, religions have some great moral people out there.

I am moral when no one is looking because I am not a douchebag. Also, because some "religious" morals aren't religious at all! They're just plain human.
Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie. These are all things that religious people tell us god has given us, while deep inside we all know that we wouldn't kill, steal or lie even if god HADN'T told us to.
If god had told us to murder, maim, steal, lie and cheat, would religious people do it? Well, yeah, they probably would. But would they feel okay about it? Probably not.

Morals have nothing to do with religion, just plain common sense and empathy.

Or at least, that's what I've been taught.

The thing is, the biblical record includes multiple instances of people doing utterly horrific things in the name of the Yahweh god, including sacrificing or preparing to sacrifice children, slaughtering babies, ham-stringing horses, raping and making sex slaves of women, stoning people to death, and so on and on an on.  Worse, it seems that many of these Yahweh followers feel quite good about it, not even just OK. 

Can you just hear it:

My god,

How gracious you are in your mercy towards me and your never ending love towards all mankind (I don't have to include women here, do I?) 


I worship thee, O Lord.  I have slaughtered the innocent in your name.  I have cut the throats of lambs and burnt their flesh for you on numerous occasions.  I have raped when you told me to rape and murdered when you told me to murder.  I have never failed to torture or mistreat animals or humans when you have demanded it.  I have been steadfast in my duty to stone my children for their disobedience and give my daughter to her rapist in marriage.  etc. etc.  etc.

Oh, what a good boy am I! 


Michael has more than proven that he is just a troll  - 'pushing' some primitive tribal beliefs.  Deal me out.

Well before you leave I hope you get a lot of sympathy from the pet chimpanzee that tore the face off the owners friend and also gouged her eyes out and bet off her hands. And don't snuggle up to close to the pitbull that recently mauled it's pregnant owner to death. Sure signs of a conscience being exhibited in lower species and clearly showing where we evolved from.

What a crock of nonsense. 




Started by David Boots in Theistic Arguments and Debate Help. Last reply by JadeBlackOlive 17 hours ago. 1 Reply

The Rise of Existence/Cosmos/Creation

Started by Andrew Brown in Small Talk. Last reply by Reg The Fronkey Farmer 2 hours ago. 8 Replies


Started by JadeBlackOlive in Small Talk. Last reply by Gregg RThomas yesterday. 1 Reply

New Solution for Plastic Waste?

Started by JadeBlackOlive in Small Talk. Last reply by TJ 9 hours ago. 10 Replies

Blog Posts

The First Lie

Posted by Andrew Brown on April 24, 2017 at 12:46pm 11 Comments

13 April

Posted by Noon Alif on April 24, 2017 at 7:08am 0 Comments

© 2017   Created by Rebel.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service