If you are a non- believer, why be moral when no one is looking?

If you are a non- believer in, all that you do is being recorded in the heavens, why be moral when no one is looking?

If there are no records and no witness, why not do anything you want?

 

If no one sees you do it, then is it a deed not done?

 

If all of this is true, then why do we have a conscience, where did it come.

 

We are told in scriptures that our conscience is our natural way of doing God's will in the absence of his Law.

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[I wrote this a while ago to show my impression of religious people.]

A world of insanity incarnate.

A world where logic is turned on its head

and the sky is upside-down,

This is where we live.

 

DELIRIUM

 

The people walk with blindfold on

Screaming as if afflicted by demons

whenever you try to remove it.

This is where we live.

 

DELIRIUM

 

The people scream and howl

tear their clothes and beg

the end is near, the signs are here.

This is where we live.

 

DELIRIUM

 

The child's sobs as the strap strikes

are ignored, it is right.

For the mother doesn't hate her son, so she beats him.

This is where we live.

 

DELIRIUM

 

"God hates Fags" "God hates the USA"

God hates everyone.

But God loves you.

This is where we live.

 

DELIRIUM

 

The blood of human sacrifices stains the sky red and falls in torrents. The people of faith wade through a sea of it. They are deaf to the screaming of the damned. And yet... this is where we live.

 

We live in Delirium, the mind of the Faithful. For what is Delirium? Pain, terror, rage, hallucination, madness, are but a few.

 

The world is painted in blood and the Blood Moon rises over it. The insane of faith shake and cry and yell in gibberish, believing that they are speaking the word of God.

 

This is where we live. We live in

DELIRIUM

 

Is the long diatribe from Rosemary a joke? Seriously...

DIATRIBE

('ə-trīb') pronunciation
n.
A bitter, abusive denunciation.

 

Which posting do you think qualified for that definition, Lisa?

I did you a little favor.

 

As already pointed out we understand you. I want to help you understand us.

 

I took your exact post and did a straight replace on 3 words.

 

Bible - NorseMythologyBook

God - Thor

Christian- Viking.

 

Read it and tell me if any of the content looses meaning or makes any less sense to you.

 

I am a Viking because I was saved by Thor's grace. Very young, I believed. My mother was not a Viking, but did believe in Thor. I was molested at around 5, became very angry and renounced Thor. I denied Thor throughout elementary and most of high school and did heavy drugs. I read a book called the Secret which introduced me to some principles of prayer without CALLING it prayer. I followed the instructions but was unaware that what I was doing was "praying." I began to notice positive changes in my life and was convinced this method was working. As time went on, I gave a title to the powers behind this method. I called it the Universe. With more time, I realized the Universe was simply a euphemism for Thor. I came to accept the existence of Thor, a higher being without ascribing to any particular religion. It still took three years before Thor led me on a learning journey to discover the truth of the NorseMythologyBook.  I was raised in a non-religious environment. My father has renounced Thor all of my life. He is very angry at Thor and his denial of Thor is evidence of that. My mother always believed in a higher being but was not a Viking and did not read the NorseMythologyBook nor attend church. I discovered Vikingity at the same time my mother and one of my younger sisters did. This was Thor's perfect timing. We have been a support system for one another in our growing faith.  Thor cannot be evil. Thor, by definition, is love. What we mistake as evil or cruelty is the consequence of a just Thor who LOVES us infinitely but who is nonetheless a good Father. Like any good Father, He gives warning, then He gives consequences for the breaking of His rules.
Slavery in and of itself is not bad. Thor himself imposed a system of authority within our own lives that we all live by and adhere to. We are to be servants of Thor. There are employers and employees. There are teachers and there are students. There are parents and there are children. Everywhere in life we see evidence of one group having more authority over another group who is to respect that authority. Slavery as we know it in America (the beatings, the whippings, the hatred, the disregard, the mistreatment) is why we can't believe that Thor would condone slavery. But hatred and malice and mistreatment are different things aside from slavery, and Thor says those things are sin. When we understand how UGLY sin must be to a perfect and holy and just Thor, then we can come to understand why sin makes Someone who is Perfect and Holy so angry and upset.  I don't disregard scientific evidence for evolution. I just believe that evolution is simply the evidence of a Thor hard at work ;) I believe evolution is the process of creation and is completely Thor's doing. Thor is being who surpasses any “theory” and is still involved in every realm.  I have faith in the NorseMythologyBook and believe that with enough knowledge of the historical and geographical context and linguistics of the original languages, that everything in the NorseMythologyBook can be reconciled.  I am a true Viking. Do I follow my NorseMythologyBook to the letter-- no. This however, is not evidence that I am not a "true Viking." A "true Viking" is not a "perfect person." Nobody is perfect. Only Jesus was. A Viking is a flawed, broken person who sins. We break Thor's words (though we try not to) and sometimes we even sin on purpose. As a Viking, we know of man's inclination towards evil and we do not reject the idea that we are inherently evil. Instead, we have faith that our Father is all-loving, all wise, and all forgiving. We believe that because of Jesus' sacrifice, we can be cleansed of our sin if we accept Lord Jesus Christ as our savior, and if we repent and turn from our sin. Does it mean that we will not fall nor be tempted? No. Of course not. But we can accept that even though we are imperfect, Thor still loves us. We live our lives for Him and have a relationship with Him that allows us to make mistakes, be forgiven, grow and push on. I do believe in the validity of the whole NorseMythologyBook. Did the children of Adam and Eve partake in incest? Factually speaking, I believe so. I know that they had children over a span of 800 years. So I think they had lots of time to make a lot of children. I'd like to think that say the 53 and 1 could have kids and seem very far removed. Scientifically, there wasn't yet any corruption within DNA that could cause genetic deformations between siblings. It may be another case of Thor having to temporarily allow something to advance mankind. Kind of like how Abraham had many concubines and wives because he was father of the first twelve tribes and needed to populate them all but then Jesus later told us to take only one wife and that adultery is sin. How did two of all the animals fit into Noah's arc? Well because Thor gave him instructions on exactly how to build it. How did the carnivores resist eating its prey? I suppose they may have been housed in different areas or Thor may have interceded with a miracle.  Why isn't there anything about the rest of the universe in the NorseMythologyBook? I don't know. Maybe because it's too vast and beyond our true comprehension. Maybe because it isn't relevant for how to live our lives here on earth as Thorly men and women. I don't know why Thor didn't tell us about it. Maybe He didn't feel it was that important for us to know. Maybe the experience of the galaxies in Heaven will fall surpass any readings of it (that's just my hope lol).  How come I follow the NorseMythologyBook? Because I believe in Thor. I don't think it gets its ass kicked by science. I think science is just the study of Thor's creation.
I believe the whole point of the NorseMythologyBook not being crystal clear is to allow room for faith to seep in.  I think of a father. If I was pouting and poppin off at the mouth, my dad would deal with me accordingly. He wouldn't be like "but I love you so much I'll do anything for you to just please behave and treat me with respect." I mean, Thor COULD do that, a father COULD do that, but it would make both of them poor leaders. We don't just give in to people who are haughty, big headed, have bad attitudes, and treat us with disrespect. There's a certain code of respect that needs to be followed so we don't raise spoiled, selfish brats. We need to treat people with due respect. It's hard but it requires patience, love, and punishment (or consequences, discipline). So once we're humbled enough to approach Thor with respect, then our attitude is one that allows us to gain knowledge of His ways and His word. We can't learn from Him while we're disrespecting Him and refusing to hear anything He has to say. Once we're humbled with the right attitude, then He gives us all the evidence we need in our lives. We see changes in our emotions, our outlook, our work, our life. We see our prayers being answered. We see miracles.

Brilliant!  But is the original writer emotionally secure enough to see the similarity , or the irony?

I will bow to no god created from the imaginations of women-hating iron age men. 

 

I was molested at around 5, became very angry and renounced God. I denied God throughout elementary and most of high school and did heavy drugs.

 

I'm very sorry that you had to go through something like that. No one deserves that, especially at such a tender age.

 

My father has renounced God all of my life. He is very angry at God and his denial of God is evidence of that.

 

It sounds like your dad is a bit confused... Technically you can't deny somethings existence AND be angry at it. Sure we don't believe in a god here, but we certainly aren't angry at gods that we don't believe even exist. At most I'd say that we find much of the characters behavior and commands to be morally reprehensible.

 

God cannot be evil. God, by definition, is love. What we mistake as evil or cruelty is the consequence of a just God who LOVES us infinitely but who is nonetheless a good Father. Like any good Father, He gives warning, then He gives consequences for the breaking of His rules.

 

You can define your god to mean whatever you want, but it still fails Biblical and from simple observation. Christians say God is love. But it also say that He is a jealous god, and that love isn't jealous. So according to the Bible there is a obvious contradiction there that prevents God as being definable as simply 'love'.

 

Also, your father analogy is okay, but flawed. A father no mater how good does not know in advance what their child is going to do. It is said that the Christian god does know in advance, but he sits idly by. A (real) good father would do everything they can to make sure their child follows the right path. Secondly, there's the issue of punishment. In real life, a parent can only punish a child for a finite period, yet God punishes by way of eternal fiery torture. A teenager my get their allowance suspended, computer/video game privileges suspended and no friends over for a month if they do something really bad (steal from mom's purse, wreck dad's car, etc). But for the simple 'crime' of not believing in a certain god, the punishment is eternal excruciating agony. Seems more than a bit off to me.

 

Slavery in and of itself is not bad.

 

Wha?!? Even with mistreatment removed, you still have someone OWNING another human being. Being forced to perform whatever tasks for no compensation, no say in the matter, and no right to go back home if they want. How is that not wrong? These people can't be compared to employees. Employees get paid, have a voice and can quit if they want.

 

When we understand how UGLY sin must be to a perfect and holy and just God, then we can come to understand why sin makes Someone who is Perfect and Holy so angry and upset.

 

Sorry, but I have to go back to the never-ending torment bit. I can't think of a single instance in my life where I would have wished that on someone, and I have dealt with some ignorant spiteful people in my days.

 

I don't disregard scientific evidence for evolution. I just believe that evolution is simply the evidence of a God hard at work ;) I believe evolution is the process of creation and is completely God's doing. God is being who surpasses any “theory” and is still involved in every realm.

 

First I'll address the way I assume you're using 'theory'. There are two common uses. The general everyday use = and idea/hypothesis/best guess. But in the scientific sense, it refers to the conclusion that is best supported by all the evidence at hand. Second, if you're a Biblical literalist (assumption on my part), evolution is in direct conflict with the creation story, as well as the young Earth hypothesis.

 

I do believe in the validity of the whole bible.

 

You do realize that the Bible shows an obvious lacking that the stars are just further away 'suns', says the Pi =3, that bats are birds, among many many other plainly false and absurd claims.

 

It may be another case of God having to temporarily allow something to advance mankind.

 

Please allow me a moment here. Why is it that in situations like these the rationalization of the believer is often that God HAD to do it that way or HAD make an exception? We're lead to believe that God is omnipotent, thus there's nothing he HAS to do or a way he HAS to do it. If he is so anti-incest he could have just *poofed* all required people into existence in an instant.

 

How did two of all the animals fit into Noah's arc? Well because God gave him instructions on exactly how to build it.

 

True, the Bible lists how it was to be built. I'll ignore the fact that the materials available wouldn't have been structurally sound for such a voyage and the several points that also render the flood and ensuing voyage impossible. Lets focus on those instructions shall we? The simple fact of the matter is that the Biblical dimensions of the ark wouldn't even hold a slight percentage of all the species on Earth. Let alone 7 pairs of every 'clean' species and one pair of every other species.

 

How come I follow the Bible? Because I believe in God. I don't think it gets its ass kicked by science. I think science is just the study of God's creation.

 

For the sake of time, it's probably better to just agree to disagree for the time being...

 

The Old Testament contains the LAW. This law was fulfilled by JESUS and NO LONGER APPLIES.

 

Except that it does still apply according to Jesus. "

Matthew 5:17. Do not think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

Judgement day hasn't happened yet (well plenty hasn't been fulfilled), as far as Jesus is concerned the OT is still valid.

 

Anyway. Before calling creationists idiots you should consider that you're failing the biggest and only truly important test that you'll ever take in your life: The answer to God's call.

 

I'll agree that name calling isn't productive or polite. But what if you are failing the test too? What if the great Odin, Thor, Horus, etc are the true god?

 

But I can tell you that I was honestly and earnestly searching for the truth and God revealed it to me

 

Thing is, a Muslim, Hindu, Pagan, etc will all claim the same thing with equal earnest. In the face of these equal claims, how are we to separate one from the other. You can't all be right, but could all be wrong.

 

But it's a heart issue as well. When your heart is in the right place, the bible comes alive in a whole new way. The passages suddenly begin to SPEAK to you. All those words begin to really finally mean something to you.

 

Same thing here. The Qur'an 'speaks' to a Muslim. So is are Islam and Christianity equally true?

 

Based on how you've spoken to me so far, I'm led to believe that your rejection may have hindered your quest for answers. What was your mind and attitude like as you searched? Where you really looking for the answers or were you looking to disprove what you already suspected to be untrue? But looking back, I can see that my attitude needed adjusting. If I had a better attitude, I could've really learned but my outlook was holding me back.

 

In my case, I started a believer and had some questions come up. I felt that the problem wasn't with the beliefs, but with me. So I searched and searched to try and 'fix' what was going 'wrong' with me. But the thing is, the more I really learned about Christianity, the more I read of the Bible, I mad more questions not less. I eventually reached a point where the facts and knowledge that I knew could not be reconciled to fit the Bible or the teachings. Then and only then did I think, "Could it be that my religion is made up?" From that point on I've been a sponge for knowledge. Now don't get me wrong, I'm still open to the prospect that there could be some form of god. I simply find ones existence highly improbable. Especially in light of the growing body of scientific knowledge.

 

I'm sure there have been times in your life where you just didn't KNOW how you were gonna make it through but you did-- .:whispers:. It was God.

 

Possibly. Or it could have been Zeus, your best friend or even your own will and determination.

 

Loss of what? Cynicism, anger, and helplessness? An ability to account for my pain?

 

Cynicism...Anger...Helplessness...Coping with pain... Pardon? Painting with a rather wide brush are we? Everyone I know would tell you that those attributes are the very antithesis of how they'd describe me. In fact, I feel that the knowledge that there is no life after this one causes me to enjoy and appreciate this life that much more. I could conceivably be angry if someone bashes my car or robs me blind. But in general, I'm quite easy going and positive. Helpless? Not at all! We all make our own luck so to speak, to I tend to be quite the hard worker. Pain is simply an inevitable product of life. luckily it only lasts a while and fades. Plus it works to put the more pleasant feelings into perspective. Love is sweet, but it's even sweeter if you've experienced loss and loved again.

 

Check my life story if you need proof. Before I find God, I'm an emotional, drug abusing wreck still hanging on to the past. I find God and I'm not "just moving on", but I'm being healed. My life is different now. Joined a youth group, all A's n B's goin into my third year of college (oh no wait. one c. in geology. i suck at science guys, shit! gimme a break!), landed an internship on the Disney lot (praise God), interested in a man who's faith is being strengthened and takin pains (OH ITS WORK) to partake in this relationship in a godly way-- you know what I'm talkin about, I'm performing at my job more positively than at any of my others, I no longer want to kill myself. I mean, dang. I'm even writing new kinds of material and shunning stuff that I used to think was cool. I was really into like drug cult movies and the Goodfellas, mafioso stuff you know.

 

I will say that I am very happy that things have turned around for you and that life is looking better. Be it due to real or simply perceived support from a deity I can understand how you correlate your life change and belief. I would opine that you always had that strength in you, but just needed whatever inspiration worked for you to set it free. It's sad to hear that you correlate your bad times with lack of faith though. Since you shared, allow me to as well. As a no believer I've... Never smoked, never done drugs, don't like beer and didn't have my first drink until age 24/25, never arrested, never thought of harming/killing myself, graduated straight A's and Valedictorian, have a job doing what I love to do, have a cute little house with my wonderful wife who I love enormously, and in general haven't really even had it BAD. Sure I've faced some loss, but time marches on and who you are determines how you will react and cope.

 

I hope that I have helped clear things up a little. Cheers!

Doing the right thing when no one is looking is exactly what morality is. If a people only act in a 'moral' way because they think their actions are being recorded for future judgement from on high then they are in no way moral people, and might actually be psychopaths.

"Character is what you have when the lights go out."

does that mean believers are moral & kind. &only do good bec. it's divinely recorded or bec. someone's looking?  Ugh!  that's like being a good waiter just for the tips, & giving bad service to someone you know can't give you a huge tip. btw in this side of the world, we don't impose tip percentage. the servers are encouraged to be pleasant & attentive regardless of the amount of tip, and one institution here prohibits guests from tipping bec. they want to give the best service not bec. you're going to pay them extra.  I do volunteer work daily bec. it's the right thing to do, no incentives! no pay! no rewards! no selfish expectations.  no promise of more blessings, soul salvation, eternal paradise (w/c sadly are the reasons for why others do good). Also I don't have to be threatened with being burned to a crisp if I don't do it or if I don't believe. I don't believe in those but I still do what I do.  So w/c one has more of an agenda & w/c one is truer service?

I am kind and loving to my dog even when it's just the 2 of us at home. not bec.someone is watching.  i don't need 10 commandments , the bill of rights or a god or a holy book to tell me I shouldn't kill someone or steal something.  we all have a moral compass.  it's actually the established religions that screw it up. hmm.... makes me think why I have a hard time getting my pious all-praise and worship relatives and friends to get involved in actual volunteer work beyond bible-quoting, sunday service and fellowship parties.    bec. they believe if they believe, that's good enough a ticket to heaven.

Not mine. So is that from?

Btw, I see your God is hard at work again, killing 1 year olds as a part of his great plan for humanity:

Here's a 7 month old which was saved by human doctors. Guess he can't catch 'em all:

god will save that poor baby for he will not allow harm to come to any of his innocent sons and daughters and the millions of others in drought and famine stricken Somalia and wjp have been suffering for the last 2 decades. He is almighty, his power is greater than the Al-shabaabs who won't allow the food aid & vaccines in. He is kind. He will protect them and will not let them die of pain and hunger. (oops!)  Just believe, have hope, pray and have faith in him. god works in mysterious ways.  but we all die. our bodies are only shells.  our spirit will live forever.  blessed are the children. blessed are the poor.  blessed are the meek.  the weak. the sick. etc. etc. etc.

 

now do i sound stupid, in denial, blind or what? 

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