If you are a non- believer, why be moral when no one is looking?

If you are a non- believer in, all that you do is being recorded in the heavens, why be moral when no one is looking?

If there are no records and no witness, why not do anything you want?


If no one sees you do it, then is it a deed not done?


If all of this is true, then why do we have a conscience, where did it come.


We are told in scriptures that our conscience is our natural way of doing God's will in the absence of his Law.

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That's rich of you.

How about you providing a peer-reviewed reference, not only on this subject, but for any of your claims you have made on TA.

Anyone thinking dogs don't have a conscience should view the video link below.



Where your evidence that "conscience" was created by God? It seems to me that you posit that as a given. You provide no evidence whatsoever. I point out that you are incorrect, and that some animals, especially social animals, have behaviours which are indistinguishable; you refuse to address the point, and just go on with your original non-argument.

If you're not willing to argue the point, but are only interested in proselytizing, maybe you should go back to Christian fora, where you will find the kind of blind acquiescence you seem to be looking for.

I have address that point with and article in one of the post, i.e., the level of conscience a dog has compared with man.

You must be patient, I have to address many people on this thread and a busy work and family life. 


I rely on the  word of God that he created the conscience. And the comparison that I cite in an earlier post shows that animalistic behavior appear to manifest some level of conscience however this is real time and a spontaneous reaction to stimuli as opposed to the conscientious deliberated smoldering  abstraction that operates in the frontal lobes of man.

Where in the bible does it say God created the conscience? He created Adam and Eve, they ate the forbidden fruit (from the the tree of knowledge no less!), they got kicked out of the garden and made a life for themselves. They had Cain and Abel. No where in the bible does it say God created conscience, at least not in Genesis, where god is doing all the creating...Hmm....holes in your argument again....

First of all, "Survival of the Fittest" was not mentioned in the Origin pf Species. It was a statement introduced by the philosopher Herbert Spencer. Read Dawkin's "Selfish Gene" and you will understand better how conscience is built into DNA provided we can agree on a suitable definition of conscience. Your definition includes a god, mine does not, therefore there is no enigma here.

An instinctive social structure does not constitute a conscience.

Bees and Ants form a community but are completely lacking a conscience.

You assume that evolution and it's precepts are so monolithic and that I am simply unschooled in the science. I hear this post to post. This  an untrue assertion. I am both schooled and degreed in Biology as well as Mechanical Engineering. And the theory is flawed due to the dearth of transitional species  in general and particularly on the hominid tree.

How do you distinguish regulated social behaviours from "conscience"? What's your definition? There's no externally valid way of making a distinction between the social codes or chimps from ours, except in terms of degree. Chimps have learned social behaviours, which vary from family group to family group in detail, but are common to all chimps in the outline. They are not born with them, but learn them from their environment. All of this is very well documented.

You use words you don't define, and concepts you don't understand, to attack a scientific framework you refuse to grasp.

Instinct social behavior will occur feral dogs that form a pack, just like their wolf ancestors. This is not learnt social behavior.

Primates will instinctively follow different models of socialization depending on the species, this is genetic and instinctive. Case in point:

Sexual social behavior
Sexual intercourse plays a major role in bonobo society observed in captivity, being used as what some scientists perceive as a greeting, a means of conflict resolution, and post-conflict reconciliation. Bonobos are the only non-human animal to have been observed engaging in all of the following sexual activities: face-to-face genital sex (although a pair of Western Gorillas has been photographed performing face-to-face genital sex[39]), tongue kissing, and oral sex.[40] In scientific literature, the female-female behavior of touching genitals together is often referred to as GG rubbing or genital-genital rubbing. The sexual activity happens within the immediate family as well as outside it. Bonobos do not form permanent relationships with individual partners. They also do not seem to discriminate in their sexual behavior by sex or age, with the possible exception of abstaining from sexual intercourse between mothers and their adult sons; some observers believe these pairings are taboo. When bonobos come upon a new food source or feeding ground, the increased excitement will usually lead to communal sexual activity, presumably decreasing tension and encouraging peaceful feeding.[41]  Group of Bonobos
Bonobo males occasionally engage in various forms of male-male genital behavior.[42][43] In one form, two males hang from a tree limb face-to-face while "penis fencing".[44][45] This also may occur when two males rub their penises together while in face-to-face position. Another form of genital interaction, called "rump rubbing", occurs to express reconciliation between two males after a conflict, when they stand back-to-back and rub their scrotal sacs together. Takayoshi Kano observed similar practices among bonobos in the natural habitat.
Bonobo females also engage in female-female genital behavior, possibly to bond socially with each other, thus forming a female nucleus of bonobo society. The bonding among females enables them to dominate bonobo society. Although male bonobos are individually stronger, they cannot stand alone against a united group of females.[45] Adolescent females often leave their native community to join another community. Sexual bonding with other females establishes these new females as members of the group. This migration mixes the bonobo gene pools, providing genetic diversity.
Bonobo reproductive rates are not any higher than those of the common chimpanzee.[41] Female bonobos carry and nurse their young for five years and can give birth every five to six years. Compared to common chimpanzees, bonobo females resume the genital swelling cycle much sooner after giving birth, enabling them to rejoin the sexual activities of their society. Also, bonobo females who are sterile or too young to reproduce still engage in sexual activity.

I believe all chimpanzees have face to face sex, if not always, and not just Bonombos - though if I'm reincarnated I definitely want to come back as a Bonobo. Ther are six billion people on this planet for two reasons and two reasons only: fucking and eating. That's all you need. That's what the Bonobos have.


Plenty of food and sex. What else could a happy primate want. Yes, I want to be a Bonobo if I'm reincarnated (which no one can prove can't happen).

"and post-conflict reconciliation"


Sounds like make-up sex to me... 

As for transitional species, there are thousands of examples of them. But every time one is presented to you creationists, you claim that it can't be a transitional species but you provide no criteria by which you come to that conclusion; in the end, you have prejudged that no fossil could ever represent a "transitional" species. You will always refuse to accept the facts, regardless of how much evidence is presented. But more importantly, how do you define "transitional" if you refuse to even understand the basic mechanisms of evolution?

Your degrees don't impress me. Your thinking is muddied and inconsistent; that's the primary criteria by which I judge you.


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