If religion were to be abolished completely (Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc.), what do you believe would be the outcome because of it?

Hey, everyone! I was just wondering what you believe would happen if humans became smart enough to abolish religion? Personally, I believe that wars would come to an all-time low or even an end, and it might induce world peace. Since there would be no religion to argue about, I believe that people would be a lot nicer to each other and have a more diverse range of friends. The only downside is that it would make things like racism and sexism a lot more common, since race, sex, and religion are the most discriminated against groups right now. What do you guys think? Is there anything I missed?

Tags: abolish, no, outcome, peace, religion, world

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You claim Catholicism is X, and provide zero evidence to support your claim. Gallup's Mirror on the other hand, claims Catholicism is Y, and presents evidence from the Vatican's own website, and you still hold your beliefs to the contrary.

Yep.  That's because you and @Gallup don't understand Catholicism, and think it can be reduced to isolated website quotes.  Do you think that physics can be reduced to isolated website quotes?  Or isolated textbook quotes?  Of course not.  When you want to learn physics you go to classes taught by real physicists.  Someone's website might be useful along the way, but it is not even close to sufficient. Same here.  I'm describing what the Catholic Church really teaches, in more accessible language than translated Latin. And if you go back through these interminably repetitions threads you'll find I at times have responded with citations to conciliar documents and church fathers and whatnot.

From my perspective, the problem is that just a few folks here are unwilling to part with their prejudice.

Atheism = no belief in god(s). That's it!

Except as I describe to @Gallup above, that's not it.  People don't form social groups based on just not believing something.  

Point me to one person who prays to Hitchens, Professor. Last I checked, Patron Saints are your department.

Patron Saints are my department, I suppose, which is why I recognize the phenomenon when I see it.  We don't pray to saints; we do admire, quote, revere, perhaps try to emulate them, hold them on a bit of a pedestal.   Sound familiar?

It's a phenomenon found in many social groups, not just religion.  I'm just using the language which is most familiar to me.

At least you don't have to worry about atheists firing you from your job, or your landlord kicking you out of your house, or being hassled daily by the entire community you live in because of your opinion.

Well, perhaps not as strongly as that, though in some ways at public universities we're expected to keep our beliefs in the closet, so to speak.

On this, however, we are in full agreement.  The harassment of non-believers is objectively sinful, absolutely wrong.  I live in the northern part of the U.S., so we don't see that as much, but I've dealt with it some.  I have no doubt that in some parts of the former confederacy it can be bad; certainly Catholics I know have been on the receiving end of some ugly discrimination in those areas, and many evangelical churches still refer to the pope as the AntiChrist or the Church as the Whore of Babylon.  We're not that much above atheists in that community's list of horrible people.

I confess I will occasionally sit out on the campus green at lunch and engage with the loud preacher-types who come around.  They, too, tend to hold tightly to their prejudices, I'm sad to say, but it can be mildly interesting.  Mostly it just merits a "yawn", as you say.

Yep.  That's because you and @Gallup don't understand Catholicism, and think it can be reduced to isolated website quotes.

Quotes from the Vatican... The main seat of Catholicism. The place that makes the rules, Professor.

Except as I describe to @Gallup above, that's not it.  People don't form social groups based on just not believing something. 

Yep. You are right. We formed this social group because we are fucking terrified with the prospect of what your loving religion can do to this world. Atheism is one thing we share, and we do have non-atheists here too. So this social group is open to all, unlike Christianity. We don't demand that you disbelieve, give us money, or kneel in order to be a member.

Patron Saints are my department, I suppose, which is why I recognize the phenomenon when I see it.  We don't pray to saints; we do admire, quote, revere, perhaps try to emulate them, hold them on a bit of a pedestal.   Sound familiar?

Here is a link to a bunch of Catholic prayers to Saints. Here is another.

So, Professor, here we have a list of prayers and Saints to pray to... Are these people on the fringe of Catholicism now?

It's a phenomenon found in many social groups, not just religion.  I'm just using the language which is most familiar to me.

By your definition of Saint, I suppose that Michael Jordan is a saint too.. Same with pretty much any celebrity that ever lived. Yet I don't remember Michael Jordan ever being attributed with miracles, aside from those last second half court game winners. Nor does he have lists of prayers to his name... Again, Professor, you claim to want to educate us on Catholicism, but it sounds more like you are trying to educate us on your personal brand of Catholicism, not the one that Catholics seem to follow.

Well, perhaps not as strongly as that, though in some ways at public universities we're expected to keep our beliefs in the closet, so to speak.

Yeah, just like anybody else. That is called equality, Professor. As soon as Christians stop trying to force everybody to bend knee to their Lich Lord, the rest of us will stop telling you to shut up.

I live in the northern part of the U.S., so we don't see that as much, but I've dealt with it some.  I have no doubt that in some parts of the former confederacy it can be bad; certainly Catholics I know have been on the receiving end of some ugly discrimination in those areas, and many evangelical churches still refer to the pope as the AntiChrist or the Church as the Whore of Babylon.  We're not that much above atheists in that community's list of horrible people.

I know about that stuff. My old college roommate's religion thinks that John-Paul 2 is going to rise from the dead as the antichrist. But that is hate from a few groups. Put yourself in our shoes, and go on campus wearing a scarlet A, or walk in a Pride Parade, and see that hate thrown at you from every direction, not just the evangelicals.

Even here, in this "social group", we get the same hate from time to time. It's not enough that they hate us everywhere else, they have to come into our house and kick our dog too.

Tell people for a week that you are atheist, and you will understand why we are angry, and why we get frustrated with theists.

@Gallup, here is the point.

The purges and persecutions in the Soviet Union were motivated by a number of things.  Ethnic tensions, the desire by the state not to have any rival authority like the Orthodox Church, the need for a pretext to seize church property to finance government activities, economic pressures galore, etc. etc.  They were also carried out in the name of an aggressive program of religious suppression in the name of atheism and the establishment of an atheist state.  Religious writers and dissenters were rounded up and sent to the gulag, religious folks denied jobs, schools had aggressive programs of atheist indoctrination, etc.

The Crusades were motivated by a number of things.  In Spain, by the "invasion"/migration of ethnic Arabs displacing native Iberians, an order of magnitude larger than the current Mexican/U.S. immigration issue on a per-capita basis.  Economic and population recovery in Europe with only first sons inheriting, the nascent development of larger nations, Turkish encroachment on Greece, potential economic gain from controlling eastern trade, etc.  They were also carried out in the name of religion, and the establishment of nominally religious states, with clerics under the effective control of the state. 

There aren't just single causes for historical events; historical events are created by the confluence of a number of factors.  Attributing things to one cause, whether it's economics (as Marx did), or religion/lack of religion (as we are doing), is clearly and obviously erroneous.

I find it particularly ironic, though, that you use the "babies tossed in fires" bit.  It's so eerily reminiscent of the justifications used by evil actors to encourage pogroms throughout the centuries.  The Jews eat Christian babies, etc.  Is blood libel the sort of argument that you really want to associate yourself with? 

Professor, in response to your atheist philosophy ... is more toxic than religion....

Atheism can be said to have a philosophy, if that philosophy is existentialism which can be described in four words: There are no excuses!

That there are no excuses explains atheism's toxicity to religion, which instills and requires a passive obedience.

Try being passively obedient without making excuses.

That there are no excuses explains atheism's toxicity to religion, which instills and requires a passive obedience.

My religion doesn't instill or require a passive obedience, and we're one of the faiths with a greater emphasis on obedience.  What religion do you think actually requires a passive obedience?  That sounds more like a state.

I'd love to hear more about "There are no excuses!", though.

Professor, you didn't go to Catholic schools in Cincinnati.

People I know who went to Catholic schools in Massachusetts or California are surprised when I  describe Cincinnati Catholicism.

Your mention of state rings a bell.

So many immigrants from Germany (my forebears) settled there that German traditions of passive obedience came with them. The damage that Naziism and WW2 Allied bombing inflicted on Germany may have cured the ailment. Today's Germany is more democratic than the USofA, which from the start has been oligarchic.

To hear more about "There are no excuses!", get the Teaching Company course on Existentialism. Some public libraries have TC courses.

Well, I'd agree on much of that.  So let's describe "passive obedience" as a cultural feature of certain ethnic or national cultures, not of religion.   Ethnic or natural cultures naturally creep into religious instruction, especially in religions that are ethnically or nationally confined, just as they creep into public education, private youth groups and other instruction of youth.

Water. In the not too distant future there will be wars over water rights. It is our most precious resource and we don't have enough to go around. Look at the systematic screwing that India has served up on it's neighbor Bangladesh in regards to controlling regional water supplies.

Companies buy up water rights from greedy crooked governments in poor countries and then charge these poor people money for what had always been free. What's next? Charging for air?

Interesting article.

There is plenty of water, the problem is that most of it is salty.  We have the technology
to desalinate sea water.  Where I live desalination is an important part of the water supply http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth_Seawater_Desalination_Plant . With another, bigger plant currently being built.  The main problem is that currently the power needed is expensive.  Once we have switched to renewables, that are essentially unlimited, the price of this water will be negligible.

The process of desalination is prohibitively expensive for many countries/regions. Therefore there remains the shortage. If the worldwide monies used for securing a defense or actually going to war with one another was directed toward development of water resources the problem would be greatly alleviated, if not eliminated. But global cooperation for the good of all is not a redeeming quality of our present civilization.

We'd always have something to fight about. Humans are evolutionarily violent and confrontational.

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