If in killing a woman her unborn baby is killed as well...

Charge the killer with a double murder or not?

Suppose she doesn't die but the baby does?

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Strega, by "all the time" I didn't mean anywhere during the growth cycle of the fetus. It applies only to viable fetuses. 

Since babies are saved from dead mothers all over the world and not just in the US, I'm sure it must happen all the time. By which I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if babies are saved from dead mothers at least several times a day.

BTW, "all the time" isn't an absolute. "Always" is an absolute.


"I googled "baby removed from dead mother" and got 54,000,000 links."

I googled "Unseen" and got 45,700,000 links...HOLY SHIT how many of you are there???

Maybe a bunch of links isn't evidence of anything useful.

It happens often enough for me to say it happens all the time (by which I mean often enough that I don't slap my forehead in amazement anymore). These are the result of about 20 minutes of googling, and all happened in the U.S. within a 12-month period:

6/5/2012 http://www.wlfi.com/dpp/news/local/2-killed-in-fiery-us-231-crash-b...

7/6/2012 http://www.kpho.com/story/18961667/baby-fighting-for-life-after-pre...

8/5/2012 http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Unborn-baby-saved-in-rollover-crash-...

9/29/2012 http://eastgreenwich.patch.com/articles/pregnant-woman-killed-in-ro...

12/27/2012 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/miracle-baby-survives-cras...

1/6/2013 http://www.toledoblade.com/Police-Fire/2013/01/05/Husband-was-drivi...

3/3/2013 http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57572289/infant-delivered-after...

Also, the following article lists three instances of women murdered then their babies cut out of them:



Yes, because punishing the offender for feticide, as I would have the law define the charge, is almost entirely with regard to her loss and suffering, not the fetus's.

What would you define as the distinction between feticide and homicide? What would be the difference for you?

Also, what would your position be in the event they both died?

Also, what would your position be in the event they both died?

Homicide and feticide, one count each.

What would you define as the distinction between feticide and homicide?

Homicide is primarily a crime against the individual killed. Unlawful feticide* would primarily be a crime against the parents of the fetus.

*I don't actually care what the crime would be called. Feticide is simply an existing term for terminating a fetus, so I've borrowed it for the sake of this dialogue.

Would "feticide" carry a sentences less than, equal to, or greater than homicide for sake of our discussion?
I can't say. I don't agree with the current system, and I don't know what would be most effective.

On the Criminal side what sentences have already been handed down for the defendant when the victim has receive a permanent injury.  An example would be where the victim lost their spleen, uterus or limb as a result of the criminal action.

On the Civil side what  monetary awards that have already been handed down for the emotional loss in similar cases?  An example would be where a woman had entered a hospital for a routine procedure, had received the wrong medication which caused a spontaneous abortion.

There will be plenty of existing cases in the law library.

Very good questions, Gregg

Must have been someone else using my login. :D

I'm stealing that excuse, for the next time I say something stupid.

I don't know who said that, musta been someone else using his login. :D


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