If in killing a woman her unborn baby is killed as well...

Charge the killer with a double murder or not?

Suppose she doesn't die but the baby does?

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Careful, Belle - Feenstra gets angry when you don't say what he wants to hear.

No, I get angry when you put words in my mouth, attribute positions to me which I have never adopted, or make unfounded assumptions which amount to minor character assassination in place of making an actual argument.



And my popcorn wasn't even done popping!


That sounds goood...I be back in a couple. :)

If abortion rights had no bearing whatsoever as to how we deal with criminals would you still feel the same way Kris?

Yes. If no other rights were attached to this issue, I would feel the same way.

A fetus lacks the level of autonomy, self-interest, self-awareness or general understanding of consequence or potential to carry the rights of a legal human being or appreciate their absence. While I do not believe there is a magical tipping point in which an individual does require those rights, there has to be a threshold in which the law recognizes their existence. Birth represents a number of changes to that offspring's condition most notably that its existence is no longer dependent on the mother. The rationale under which we allow a mother alone to make certain decisions no longer holds true and the baby has to be treated more as an individual human being.

"Yes. If no other rights were attached to this issue, I would feel the same way."

Exactly. The question is important regardless of any legal cases which may or may not hinge upon its answer.

That is the ONLY thing I consider -- the mother first and foremost, and the surviving relations in general.

Yes, because punishing the offender for feticide, as I would have the law define the charge, is almost entirely with regard to her loss and suffering, not the fetus's.

Referring to the killing of the unborn as feticide begs the very same question which is at question here: is a fetus an unborn incipient person or just a hunk of tissue.

Neither, exactly, or both partially. The fetus itself doesn't have the same legal rights as a person itself, but the act of killing it against the wishes of the mother represents clear harm, physical and emotional (and to a lesser extent financial) because of the relationship between parent and offspring. It also overrides the mother's reproductive rights. I would characterize both those offences as severe and criminal.


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