Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kris Feenstra on February 2, 2011 at 6:48pm

I agree, though omniscience presents and odd problem for omnipotence.

 

If an omniscient and omnipotent god knows everything, then it knows the mechanics by which all things operate and, by extension, the outcomes of all cause and effect scenarios.  Knowing the outcomes of all cause and effect scenarios, it also knows the perfect course of action to take at all times.  Contradicting a perfect course of action as defined by omniscience necessarily implies a limit to said omniscience.  Alternately, being absolutely restricted by a perfect course of action implies a limit to omnipotence.

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Permalink Reply by Kenneth Montville D.D. on February 3, 2011 at 4:44pm

Of course, omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence all commit heinous logical fallacies when given even a modicum of thought let alone when figured together.

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Permalink Reply by elaine kilshaw on February 2, 2011 at 9:50am

There are so many facts that prove there is not a good god, but perhaps the religious has been mistaken and it is not their god but their devil pretending to be their god.

 If I was all powerful I would stop children being tortured. I have always said when there is no poverty orcruelty on that day I will believe in their god.

 

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Permalink Reply by Violet Chartreuse on February 2, 2011 at 10:07am

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?

Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able but not willing?

Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?

Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?

Then why call him God?

-epicurus

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Permalink Reply by Alex on February 2, 2011 at 2:12pm

Love this quote.

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Permalink Reply by Skycomet the Fallen Angel on February 5, 2011 at 2:47pm

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Permalink Reply by Kenneth Montville D.D. on February 2, 2011 at 6:34pm

It is perfectly sound logic. If god is omnipotent then he must be able to know all things and be all places. As he knows everything that means he knows the outcomes to all variables, in fact reducing all variables to 1 (the outcomes he has previous knowledge of). Reality would be nothing more than a TV rerun of a show he had scripted and seen an infinite number of times, completely predictable in every way.

 

Of course being omniscient also means knowing the outcomes to all of his own actions as well as nothing can be unknown. This means that God himself is subjugated to his own predestine knowledge. This of course only begins to scratch the surface of the logical inconsistencies of omnipotence/omniscience.

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Permalink Reply by Zero One on February 3, 2011 at 1:41am

When are the aliens going to get here? I think we were just an "alien" science fair experiment that went on too long unattended. When they show up and say, hey we created you by accident I will just say I told ya so.

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Permalink Reply by Moria Jackson on February 4, 2011 at 2:19am

I personally don't accept the idea of sin.  For me, it is a made up concept just like god, heaven, and hell.  There are things that are illegal, unethical, and immoral, however, the definition of these change depending on time and place.  There can be no ultimate truth when it comes to what is right. 

Original sin is a fucking joke too because god PUT these first 2 people in a garden with trees they aren't suppose to touch.  But they have never even been TAUGHT right from wrong, so disobeying the command to leave the trees alone doesn't come as a surprise to me, and sure as hell shouldn't be bothering the idiot that made the rules.  Sin is just a tool to control and oppress the masses.  The sooner we all realize this, the better.

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Permalink Reply by scLovely on February 4, 2011 at 2:44am

It's so funny that this post popped up. I can use one of god's bipolar moments that we talked about to see what the bible says about sin!

JO1 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. JO1 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 JO1 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

JO1 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God"

Well, that should clear things up! (*yeah right*) This is one of the hundreds of contradictions that I have found in the bible.

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Permalink Reply by scLovely on February 4, 2011 at 2:58am

I also have a hard time with the "free will" B.S.  For instance: I hold a gun to someone's head and tell them that they need to shave their balls. They say "okay". Then I tell them they don't really have to shave their balls, so they stop. But then I tell them if they don't shave their balls, I will shoot them. But it is their choice. I have given them "free will" to choose.

It is no different than god saying he wants you to worship him but you don't have to. Then he says if you don't, you'll rot in hell. That is not free will at all. It is a forced decision.

As far as sin goes, it is all bullshit. There should be laws to ensure that maniacs don't harm others, but do whatever you want. Sin is something they came up with to scare people into obeying the rules. It is all about control.

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Permalink Reply by Yahweh on February 5, 2011 at 5:27am

"It is no different than god saying he wants you to worship him but you don't have to. Then he says if you don't, you'll rot in hell. That is not free will at all. It is a forced decision."

 

That would be an ultimatum:)

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