Check out what I read in Portable Atheist, from Bertrand Russell's An Outline of Intellectual Rubbish:


"There are logical difficulties in the notion of sin. We are told that sin consists in disobedience to God's commands, but we are also told that God is omnipotent. If He is, nothing contrary to His will can occur; therefore when the sinner disobeys His commands, He must have intended this to happen."


So if god is all powerful, we can't act contradictory to his commands, so their really isn't any sin.


What do you guys think of this?

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There are so many facts that prove there is not a good god, but perhaps the religious has been mistaken and it is not their god but their devil pretending to be their god.

 If I was all powerful I would stop children being tortured. I have always said when there is no poverty orcruelty on that day I will believe in their god.


Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?

Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able but not willing?

Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?

Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?

Then why call him God?


Love this quote.

It is perfectly sound logic. If god is omnipotent then he must be able to know all things and be all places. As he knows everything that means he knows the outcomes to all variables, in fact reducing all variables to 1 (the outcomes he has previous knowledge of). Reality would be nothing more than a TV rerun of a show he had scripted and seen an infinite number of times, completely predictable in every way.


Of course being omniscient also means knowing the outcomes to all of his own actions as well as nothing can be unknown. This means that God himself is subjugated to his own predestine knowledge. This of course only begins to scratch the surface of the logical inconsistencies of omnipotence/omniscience.

When are the aliens going to get here? I think we were just an "alien" science fair experiment that went on too long unattended. When they show up and say, hey we created you by accident I will just say I told ya so.

I personally don't accept the idea of sin.  For me, it is a made up concept just like god, heaven, and hell.  There are things that are illegal, unethical, and immoral, however, the definition of these change depending on time and place.  There can be no ultimate truth when it comes to what is right. 

Original sin is a fucking joke too because god PUT these first 2 people in a garden with trees they aren't suppose to touch.  But they have never even been TAUGHT right from wrong, so disobeying the command to leave the trees alone doesn't come as a surprise to me, and sure as hell shouldn't be bothering the idiot that made the rules.  Sin is just a tool to control and oppress the masses.  The sooner we all realize this, the better.

"It is no different than god saying he wants you to worship him but you don't have to. Then he says if you don't, you'll rot in hell. That is not free will at all. It is a forced decision."


That would be an ultimatum:)

Good point. But just to play devil's advocate [pun intended], I have said similar things to theists about the inconsistency of the notion of free will and an omnipotent God. And the response is usually...


"Well, God wants us to love him and obey him... but he also wants us to have a choice. He doesn't want to force us."

I'd say:


"It's not a choice of free will. It's blackmail."

I think that our individual awareness somehow draws the stuff and situations of our daily lives. And our "free will'  is to pick what we like and what we don't like. what we see as wrong and what we see as right. Or we can let go of the entanglements of desire and repulsion. and fully accept the present moment with all of its joy and horror.

If there is only one; Not god not man,but mind; then the notion of sin becomes one of local discord: i e the idea that something is not right and some things are. If you remove the duality of god and man, then you remove the idea of right, wrong, preferred, and not preferred. All opposites in the realm of phenomenon are cancelled by each other. All that remains is the one.  


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