If creationism were true, wouldn’t that mean that no animal species could be related to another? And DNA would be varied from species to species showing no relationship at all. Every species would be related only to itself, having come from no common ancestor. Horses would not be related to zebras, wolves to coyotes, polar bears to grizzly bears, or llamas to camels. Tigers and lions could not be related, and would be incapable of cross-species reproduction. There would be no ligers or tigons. That applies to plants as well. We would be unable to cross-pollinate two different plants to come up with a hybrid.

Tags: creationism, evolution

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I think if you want to talk to a fundamentalist theist, you have to adapt to their epistemology.  It's no good to try to convince them coming from a scientific epistemology which they don't share.

For me, the problem is very much what @Pope describes.   The theory of literal creationism means that God deliberately set up things in the world to lead good, well-intentioned people astray.  Fossil evidence, chemistry, DNA.   Would a loving Father ever deliberately lead his children astray?   Would even a human father ever set things up at home so that his child might believe that white was really green or that radiator fluid was good to drink?

The fundamental problem with creationism within a religious epistemology is that it requires a God who is dishonest, and leads his children astray.  That's not a Christian God, that's Loki.  Literal creationism is really a form of blasphemy.

I have to disagree with your approach: fundamentalist creationists do share our scientific assumptions whether they want to or not — and whether they know it or not. With the exception of certain areas of theoretical physics, astrophysics and advanced mathematics (String Theory, yes or no?), current science is all of one piece, and can't be picked apart, accepting this area but not that.

The chemistry, biology, geology and physics that allow modern man to have gasoline and food preservatives, flu shots, offshore oil drilling, mobile phones, television, cars and men on the moon is the same science that invented and used carbon dating, geology, fossil analysis and astrophysics to date the universe, the solar system and the earth, and validate the theory of evolution. You can't believe your Chevy Silverado truck exists yet not believe the earth is millions of years old, because the same scientific method created both the truck and the earth dating science. 

With all due respect, Paul, yes you can drive a gasoline powered vehicle and believe that the presence of gasoline on Earth is part of a grand scheme rigged up by God to test the faith of dutiful modern Christians. It doesn't need to make sense if it comes from a pulpit.  

@Keith

That's fairly easily refuted by simply saying that god used the same building materials, or he whimmed it that way or whatever creators do, and that it's all part of a giant plan that's mysterious.  Evolution is so obviously logically correct, that only people who do not apply logic could deny it.  Those that do so, are not therefore going to be very susceptible to logical arguments.  To them, logic does not apply.

Religion has become political and powerful.  Those in control will be difficult to convince that they should drop the very system that gave them their power.  There's no money in atheism.

Strega, the creation story says god created man from dust, for all the animals and plans, he willed them into being. In that case, the building block is in his let there be phrase! But then the theist must now tell us why there is a similarity between our DNA and other apes since man is created from dust before life is breathed into him!

Chimpanzees share 98% of our active DNA. Just a 2% difference between world destroying civilization and throwing your own poop, though some theists tend to blur the line on that second one.

Love this. I will be quote stealing from you H3xx.

Good point there. Creationists often argue how sound their beliefs are despite all these arguments.

"God did it. He can do it like that because he's god." Sigh.

Not necessarily. The Big Guy might have used modular coding and copy and pasted from one creation to the next.  I sure wish he would have corrected the lumbar spine and the prostrate gland, just to mention two major screw ups.

I happen to like my prostate gland, thank you very much.

You won't if it ever gets cancer...

It's probably being very good to you now. Heh. Heh. 

(was that creepy enough? no. ok.)

;D 

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