There are international standards of weights and measures, even for the passage of time.

The gold standard for a moral, eternally abiding life now sits and the right hand of his Father.  

Diametrically opposed is the man of Sin, our natural proclivity and the spirit working in our minds and members. We sin as naturally and freely as water cascading down a water fall.

Our mouths, swear, our minds envy, covet and indulge in vilest most despicable imaginings. 

We are bitter, abusive, hateful,  coldhearted, murders, whisperers, callous, without natural affection, haughty, high minded, quick to anger, insufferable lot. Deserving all of the natural catastrophes that beset us, including AIDS, tsunamis, hurricanes and tornadoes. As AIDS spreads rapidly around the earth it becomes evident that everybody is sleeping with everyone across the whole planet. A sure marker of the moral turpitude that besets the earth. 

But a standard was born. Eat his flesh, drink his blood and let him abode in your mind and members that you may abide forever.

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Obedience is an inert tendency requiring no knowledge, it is how we are made.
Not a very intelligent response. It's obvious that you are the person speaking hatefully. But thanks for replying.

A dog is obedient to it's master despite having no sense of good and evil.

You can be obedient without knowledge. Look at any child.


That is absurd. Have you ever trained a puppy? Ever seen a baby start toddling? Small animals are not naturally obedient. They are naturally curious and inquisitive and have no concept of behaviors society considers right or wrong. They must be taught to obey.

The point is that a child does not need a tree of the knowledge of good and evil to be obedient. God told them to be obedient without the knowledge of Good and Evil. He also told them that they would surely die, if they ate from the fruit.  God had a big punishment for them if they were disobedient. They ignored the warning they died. Likewise your dog will listen to out of fear of the consequences. Obedience comes out of fear of punishment. Not from the knowledge of good and evil.

Yes, a child or dog does need to be taught which "good" behaviors and curiosities will be tolerated or rewarded and which "bad" behaviors and curiosities won't be tolerated to be obedient. This is why children brought up without discipline are brats. This is why feral children are more like wild animals. This is why puppies chew your shoes. This is also why you can program an impressionable mind to be a racist sexist homophobe and follow you to protests holding signs that say "God hates fags" if you're so inclined. Knowing "right" from "wrong" and obedience do NOT come naturally.


Good luck explaining consequences to an infant or a puppy before they do something wrong. Fear of consequences only comes AFTER the discipline for the undesired behavior.

Really not sure what would be worse, being your kid or your dog?

Take the story a step further and understand these two knew nothing about consequences, according to the story there had been no death. So what the hell would death mean to them?


Adam was created with innate knowledge obviously. He named all the animals. He knew who God was and that Eve was bone of his bone. But in regard to God's court never materializing naked. How on earth would they know that. When the presence of God moved through the Garden they where absolutely appalled that they were unpresentable before the King of Heaven and Earth. They became as enlightened as angels. So God put a Cherub in front of the Tree of Life less they eat of that and become as gods, but because they were rebellious, it would be more like the fallen ones that predate them.
So God put a Cherub in front of the Tree of Life less they eat of that and become as gods, but because they were rebellious, it would be more like the fallen ones that predate them.


You are implying God didn't know if they would be rebellious or not when he created them.


I think you mean "he knew they would be rebellious and eat from the tree before he created them, but he created them and told them not to eat of the tree anyway, just for the lols."


Fixed that for ya.

As I said earlier in the thread, of course he knew, yet the plan of defeating the works of the fallen ones was well on it's way as evident by the prophecy God gave. "I will create enmity between your seed and his seed (the serpent). You shall bruise his head, but he shall bruise your heel". God works in shadows all through history. The tree of life is a figure of Christ, the imperishable Seed and the life that God plans to give man in abundance, And the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, represents rebellion and the seed of the serpent, the man of Sin working in all of us due to the serpent's spiritual seduction of Eve.  The prophecy is that the Good Seed in Adam's progeny that comes from God, will defeat the bad seed in Adams progeny that comes from Satan. We are born with death working in our members from the womb the spiritual legacy that we inherited from our forefathers living in darkness and worshipping pagan gods for countless generations. And I speculate that the fallen angels were able to defeat all of our predecessors including Cro-magnon and Neanderthal and the age of the Mega-fuana., Which apparently ended in a cataclysm with the destruction of the animals name by these species of men, just as Adam name all the animals of the current age.

Here's a question for you -

You have a dusty old book, it was based on a dusty old book the jews have, islam has a dusty old book which is related to the jewish & the christian dusty old books. Three similar dusty old books. Add to that the many dusty old books of hinduism, the dusty old book of sikhism, jainism, buddhism, mormonism, the not so dusty old book of scientology, and many other dusty old books of religion which are now dead.

How can you be so sure that your dusty old book is the correct dusty old book? Its not the oldest, not the newest and its not original.

@Aksay Bist. You have asked a profound question.

"How can you be so sure that your dusty old book is the correct dusty old book? Its not the oldest, not the newest and its not original."

Truth is, if we must rely on dusty old books, we are dead men.

Christ has left a spiritual legacy such that if we commune with him we will become oracles of God, living books, with life flowing from our bellies. How can you tell that you are living book?. Well, you will have spiritual gifts in the life that now is, as a token of the great power that you will have in the future.  The gift of prophesying, healing, speaking tongues, interpreting tongues, healing the sick and raising the dead.

In the beginning was the 'word' and the word was god because the word created the world in the mind of man. Armed with the word man was no longer a part of the world but something outside the world. The word divided man from the world and also divided the world because then everything had a name.And one thing was not like another thing because they had been named, and they were different.

And the word brought the knowledge of good and evil. All that was good brought harmony to the people and all that was evil were the things that men saw that made them like the beasts. And all that was good was said to come from something above the world, which they called 'God'. But they had forgotten that the word had created the world, and when they thought that they were in the world but not of the world, the word became 'God' and it was said that 'God' was the creator, and that through the word of 'God' they had been created, and the world had been created. But they had forgotten that it was the word that had created 'God'.


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