I voted for Obama, but I have given up on him in regard to the Constitution
A friend of mine sent me this and I kinda agree with him. Your thoughts?
I voted for Obama, but I have given up on him in regard to the Constitution. He is a liar. He lied on FISA, promising to filibuster it before he voted FOR it, and since elected he has thrown every single Constitutional campaign promise under the bus, culminating in this most recent charade of show trials for Guantanamo terrorists.
As Glenn Greenwald succinctly puts it; Obama's new system, which he outlined in a speech as President and Holder is now implementing, guarantees that the government wins no matter what.
If the government can convict in civilian court, they go there for the publicity. If not, they go to a military conviction. If they cannot get a conviction there, they reserve the right to "preventively detain indefinitely" anybody, without a trial, without charges, forever.
You see, they have no evidence but somehow are magically certain that 75 people being held at Guantanamo are guilty. Why? Because they tortured confessions out of them.
On top of ALL that, Holder just said publicly that if KSM were somehow acquitted (nearly impossible since he freely and gleefully confessed on tape before ever being tortured) the government would HOLD HIM ANYWAY under the preventive detention program.
So this is our new justice system: No matter what evidence there is, even without any evidence at all, the result is that you stay in jail.
That is not justice. The trials, whether civilian or military, cannot change the outcome. The sentence of life imprisonment is already decided and no verdict can alter it. That is the definition of a show trial, one that is guaranteed to punish the person on trial.
It is against the Constitution, and against the basic principles of human rights everywhere. Bush, Cheney, and now Obama and Holder have turned America into a third world banana republic, replete with show trials and massive corruption, and a caste system in which the politicians and the wealthiest citizens get blatantly subservient and preferential treatment by government agencies, by the courts, by the police, and even by the citizens they are robbing.
I was fooled. Obama is no defender of the Constitution, he has actively continued and even extended the Constitutional breaches of Bush and Cheney, explicitly endorsed the Imperial Presidency they advocated, and now only pays lip service to his poor deluded supporters about how nobody is above the law.
I voted for Obama, but I have given up on him in regard to the Constitution. He is a liar. He lied on FISA, promising to filibuster it before he voted FOR it, and since elected he has thrown every single Constitutional campaign promise under the bus, culminating in this most recent charade of show trials for Guantanamo terrorists.
As Glenn Greenwald succinctly puts it; Obama's new system, which he outlined in a speech as President and Holder is now implementing, guarantees that the government wins no matter what.
If the government can convict in civilian court, they go there for the publicity. If not, they go to a military conviction. If they cannot get a conviction there, they reserve the right to "preventively detain indefinitely" anybody, without a trial, without charges, forever.
You see, they have no evidence but somehow are magically certain that 75 people being held at Guantanamo are guilty. Why? Because they tortured confessions out of them.
On top of ALL that, Holder just said publicly that if KSM were somehow acquitted (nearly impossible since he freely and gleefully confessed on tape before ever being tortured) the government would HOLD HIM ANYWAY under the preventive detention program.
So this is our new justice system: No matter what evidence there is, even without any evidence at all, the result is that you stay in jail.
That is not justice. The trials, whether civilian or military, cannot change the outcome. The sentence of life imprisonment is already decided and no verdict can alter it. That is the definition of a show trial, one that is guaranteed to punish the person on trial.
It is against the Constitution, and against the basic principles of human rights everywhere. Bush, Cheney, and now Obama and Holder have turned America into a third world banana republic, replete with show trials and massive corruption, and a caste system in which the politicians and the wealthiest citizens get blatantly subservient and preferential treatment by government agencies, by the courts, by the police, and even by the citizens they are robbing.
I was fooled. Obama is no defender of the Constitution, he has actively continued and even extended the Constitutional breaches of Bush and Cheney, explicitly endorsed the Imperial Presidency they advocated, and now only pays lip service to his poor deluded supporters about how nobody is above the law.
Tags: obama
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Nathan Hevenstone on -
I see this in two entirely different ways:
One the one hand, Obama's hasn't even completed his first years in office, yet. I have always hated the 100-Days thing, and I think it is still too early to start criticizing him. He's got 4 years to keep or break his promises. I say we shut up until, at the very least, that last year.
On the other hand... I have to agree with most of what was said in that Young Turks clip. Obama is pulling the same shit Bush and Cheney pulled, albeit packaged differently, with the War on Terror, Guantanamo, etc. I am severely disappointed in his stance on on Marijuana legalization (sorry, but I do think it's important... or at least should be... California has proven that its legalization would be a huge boost to the economy). I am also not too happy with how he's pretty much given everything to the banks and Wall Street while we here on Main Street are still pretty much wallowing in shit.
As far as Health Care, Obama has dropped the ball on that, as well. Not only is Abortion not being covered, but the Public Option has been completely dropped from the Senate bill, as well. The Democrats control the Government, but still can't get shit done.
Why? Because the Democrats are spineless cowards. They still let the Republicans rule the house, even though the Republicans should have no power whatsoever. They hide behind this bullshit idea of "bi-partisanship". They are willfully ignoring the fact that the Republicans don't want bi-partisanship... they want to rule the White House.
Instead of constantly trying to give reach-arounds to the Republicans, the Democrats should tell them to fuck off. "Guess what, old-timers. This country is fucked, and needs to be fixed. You guys would let it sit in depression for years to come as long as the greedy money-laundering criminals on Wall Street lined their pockets and, in return, lined yours. Well, we don't want to do that. You see, we actually care about America. So you backwards fucks can take your asses home and cry to your mommies while we fix this country. The 1700's are over. We live in the 21st Century. It's time to move forward." But they won't do that, because they're spineless cowards.
At the end of the day, the fact is that Obama is a politician. The very nature of politics is dishonest. It's a sad fact, but a fact nonetheless. Obama is just like all other politicians.
Sadly, he's also a victim of hype. Many people voted for him because he wasn't Bush (fuck... he won that Nobel Peace Prize because he isn't Bush). He was hyped up as a savior, okay? There were honestly people in this country who honestly thought that, when Obama won, they would never have to worry again. Money would quite simply fall in their laps. Some even went so far as too believe they would never even have to pay their mortgage, or anything else. They practically dressed this man up as the second coming of Christ.
And he didn't help by not specifically addressing those claims. Granted, he was embroiled in a rather retarded "fight" with Hilary Clinton, so he probably didn't have time to get to those claims... until he was, of course, made the Democratic nominee for President. But he still didn't address them.
Obama has proven himself to be a brilliant speaker, yes, but, ultimately, just another politician, just like every other politician.
On a side note, Obama also got in on the wings of moderate Republicans, also known as "spurned ex-McCain voters", who decided McCain was a lost cause when Sarah Palin was chosen a his VP candidate (she actually isn't as popular within the Republican Party as Fox News would have you believe). I should point out that, although I am very much a Liberal today (too Liberal for America... I very much intend to leave this country within the next 6 to 8 years), at the beginning of the election I was more a moderate Republican, and I was one of those spurned ex-McCain voters who voted for Obama more to keep Palin away from the White House then to put Obama in. And there was a very large group of us, too. I know many Republicans today who, while they don't like Obama, are still glad they decided not to vote for McCain/Palin and instead went Democratic.
So there are my two entirely opposite takes on Obama. Make of it what you will.
On a more funny note, South Park had a brilliant episode about the whole thing called "About Last Night".
South Park Season 12 Episode 12: "About Last Night"
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Permalink Reply by Nathan Hevenstone on
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"On a more funny note..."
Really? Wow. I'm ticked at myself. I can do so much better than this...
That should say "On a funnier note". Sorry.
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Permalink Reply by Reggie on -
And I thought I was critical of my own mistakes!
No worries, as long as the ideas behind the words have substance and spark good debate or discussion, then I wouldn't sweat the small stuff!
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Permalink Reply by Reggie on
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doone is right.
It is too soon to judge Obama as a President. I am not thrilled with certain aspects of his presidency, but I would not hesitate to vote for him again.
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Permalink Reply by Dave G on -
I still consider Obama a better choice than McCain/Palin (Palin just can't be separated from McCain, she was the torpedo that sank his ship beyond recovery), but I also still consider him to be severely flawed in some areas. Maintaining the 'the government is beyond questioning, we just say state secret and everyone complaining has to go away' crap, for example.
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Permalink Reply by Reggie on
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I just don't get how on one hand, the government is incompetent and can't be trusted to do anything right, therefore small government. But on the other hand, State secrets are to never be questioned. There is an inherent contradiction in some of these peoples' ideas.
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Permalink Reply by Dave G on
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I can understand the need to keep some things secret. But the government loves to classify everything, even (or particularly) when the subject in question has no need to be secret at all.
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Permalink Reply by Reggie on
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The first instance on State secrets being used and becoming a precedent?
Turns out that there were no secrets and the Air Force was using it to avoid criminal negligence charges. The judge accepted the State secret argument from Air Force lawyers without evaluating if their claim was legitimate or not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Reynolds
So, your first instance on this being used, successfully at least, turns out to be a lie used to avoid responsibility and/or punishment for wrongdoing.
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Permalink Reply by SabreNation on -
It goes back to what I said earlier in this thread (or perhaps a different one) - once a government/leader has an ability like that, it's not something they ever want to give up. It's nearly impossible to get them to let go of it. It's just far too convenient. When something comes up that you'd rather not have to talk about you just slap the word "classified" across it, call it a state secret, and that's it. The blogosphere may be up in arms for a day or two but the mainstream media won't touch it and the political blogosphere (though they'd never admit is) is just as fickle, short-memoried, and easily distracted as the MSM is when it comes to this type of stuff.
These things will never change, the rights we lost under George W. Bush will never be returned - short of a Bernie Sanders-esque TRUE "man of the people" type populist being elected president which will never happen. Even if we were to get close, corporate America would make sure it didn't happen - by any means necessary. If you doubt that, you are TRULY naive.
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Permalink Reply by Nathan Hevenstone on
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This one of the other big reasons (aside from religion) that I'm seriously considering leaving this country. I just don't think I can live in such a... let's be honest... conservative country anymore.
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Permalink Reply by Nathan Hevenstone on
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Make what better? What is there to make better?
The Democrats and Republicans have a strange hold on our political system. In order for this country to get better, we would have to boot both parties completely. But that will never happen because both have a shitload of power and are held in by Wall Street and Big Business, neither of which wants either party out of office because, at the end of the day, both parties will ultimately shit on Main Street to help out Wall Street.
The USA isn't up shit's creek, it's gone over the waterfall. It's too late for America, as far as I'm concerned.
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