I recently became an open Atheist, and admittedly I've been a bit of an ass about it with my family. I scoff at the candidates they support (Romney, and in one extreme case, Santorum), and when my family confronted me about WHY I hated these two so much, the first thing that popped out of my mouth was that they are Fundamentalist Christians (Yeah, Romney's a Mormon, BFD), and are both preaching from a book that encourages slavery, mass murder, incest, infanticide, the murder of your own children, rape, the list goes on and on. The most interesting response I got was "Well, that's all old testament. CHRISTIANS follow the NEW Testament much more seriously than the Old Testament." Well, I've heard broad sweeping generalizations before, but this one had me a bit stumped. I made a bit of a cop out by simply stating that it was damned convenient for them to be able to pick and choose which bits of God's word and law that they follow.
So here's what I need help with: I would like to find New Testament examples of God Gone Wrong, General Hypocrisy, etc, etc, etc...Do any of you have a good idea of where I can start?
Oh it goes beyond that, anthropologist from universities in Israel since 1967 have been trying to find evidence for the exodus and have none. This is very troubling to them and they keep looking but so far zip.
The New Testment and Christianity are predicated on human sacrifice - immoral even for a "god."
The New Testament is full of nonsense too - read it for yourself and you will find many examples. Here's one of many -
This has been circulating for a few years - but no matter what year, it still holds true and is still funny.
This could be sent to Santorum or Romney
Thank you for doing so much to educate us regarding God's Eternal Law. I have learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a constitutional amendment outlawing same-sex marriage, which of course is an abomination.
As you said, "In the eyes of God, marriage is based between a man and a woman." I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how I might obey them:
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies only to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Can I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? (She works hard, but does eat a lot.)
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev. 14: 19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking when meeting young women at church socials, but most of them seem to take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is with my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them, or would Lysol work?
5. I have a neighbor, Aaron Rogers, who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states that he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it? And how good is the Packers backup QB?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev.11:10) it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there degrees of abomination? What about a homosexual at an oyster bar?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I do wear glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? What about contacts? Can God tell?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? I know they must be put to death, but I do not know the recommended method.
9. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field (I think corn and alfalfa). And his wife wears garments made from two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev. 24:10-16). Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14).
10. And last, I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean. May I still play football if I wear gloves?
I know that you are very busy with your presidential campaign, but, if you get a chance, I would really like your guidance on these critical and disturbing issues.
Thank you again for reminding us of the eternal and unchanging truth of the Holy Bible.
Yours truly, etc
Suzanne, a lot of people feel this holds true, but a quick glance at Acts 15 basically trounces this whole thing. It originally appeared on the West Wing, as a sort of jab at Dr Laura who was Jewish. Against Christians, this is a strawman argument.
I try to get people to use 1 Cor 5:9-13 as an alternative which forbids Christians from judging non-Christians period.
Don't let them 'get away with' that crap about dis-avowing the OT. Jesus said he bought it - 'every jot & tittle'. (Punctuation marks, I think.) So they're stuck with that entire abomination
William, in order to preserve intellectual honesty, all strawman arguments need to be tossed. This one isn't true. The reason why is complicated, but clearly outlined in the sacred texts.
The misinformation is so rampant on this issue that I feel like I am swimming upstream trying to get the truth out there on this... But the truth needs to be out there. When we stop using strawman arguments we will use powerful ones instead.
Hi John, there never was an army anywhere as big as the army of straw men, all over the world. A lie can circumnavigate the world while truth is looking for it's shoes.
Lol that is an awesome statement. Nobody is immune. Anyway, I have an explanation for why it doesn't work on page 1, but if you need any more details, I can give you some more info on it.
Keep this in mind as you go forward with your ideas:
1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
Wow. That's a good one. I forgot that one was ever there.
1) Jesus only had the OT, and the early "Christians" only had the OT - was this insufficient for them?
2) Why didn't Jesus write anything?
3) History of the NT - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament
4) Slavery in the NT - http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl2.htm
5) Genocide in the NT - http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2007/09/13/no-genocide...
6) Other NT verses of possible interest - http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/bible-atrocities
MATTHEW 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Jesus endorses the mass murder, rape, slavery, torture and incest written about in the Old Testament.
MATTHEW 8:12Jesus warned of eternal torture in hell, "into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
MATTHEW 10:35-36 Following Jesus meant the possibility of turning a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, etc. "…a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household."
MATTHEW 11:21-24 The cities of Korazin, Bethsaida and Capernaum were not impressed with Jesus’ great works, so Jesus said "Woe to you" and cursed them to a fate more unbearable than that of Sodom.
MATTHEW 8:21 A man sought to follow Jesus, but he wanted to bury his recently deceased father before he went. Jesus replied, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead." Jesus ignored the man’s grief.
MARK 4:10 In Jesus’ parable of the sower, he told his disciples that he spoke to others in parables so they’d remain confused..."otherwise they might turn and be forgiven."
MARK 7:10 Jesus taught that any child who cursed his parents should be killed according to Old Testament law.
LUKE 8:32-33 Jesus cast demons out of a naked man and into a large herd of pigs. They fell over a cliff to their death. The town asked Jesus to leave.
LUKE 12:47 Jesus warned that a servant of God who does not heed his master will be "beaten with many blows."
LUKE 19:26 In the parable of the ten minas, the master (God) said of those who chose not to follow him, "...bring them here and kill them in front of me."
JOHN 6:53-66 Jesus said to eat his flesh and drink his blood. Despite the metaphorical tone, many disciples were uncomfortable with the idea and chose to walk away.
ACTS 5:1-9 Ananias lied about the money he’d made on sold property, keeping some for himself. God killed him, then killed his wife for being in on it.
ROMANS 1:26-27 Paul said that homosexuals deserve death.
EPHESIANS 1:4-5 Despite all of Jesus’ instructions to accept him as savior, Jesus also says God "predestined" those will be saved according to His pleasure.
HEBREWS 12:20 God said that animals must be stoned to death if they lay foot upon Mt. Zion.
1 PETER 1:20 Despite God’s failed experiment in the Garden of Eden, the mass execution of Noah’s flood and the final solution of Christ’s sacrifice, Jesus was predestined to be crucified all along. "He was chosen before the creation of the world,"
REVELATION 6:8 In the End Times, God gives Death permission to slaughter 25% of the earth’s population by "sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth."
7) Something else I came across
1) “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.
2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)
3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)
3b) "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)
3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)
4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)
5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)
6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)
7) Peter says that all slaves should “be subject to [their] masters with all fear,” to the bad and cruel as well as the “good and gentle.” This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18
8) “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).
9) “...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35
In my opinion, the Bible is an outdated mythological book with more atrocities and immorality than useful lessons. It should be viewed as any other book in history and it should definitely not be used for a moral or legal guide (or any serious intellectual indeavor - it has little to no valid information in matters of science).
Ron, you are right. 'The' bible, all 400 differing translations are merely Babylonian mythology. In the words of Thomas Jefferson,: "It matters not whether my neighbor believes in in twenty gods or no gods, it neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."