I recently became an open Atheist, and admittedly I've been a bit of an ass about it with my family. I scoff at the candidates they support (Romney, and in one extreme case, Santorum), and when my family confronted me about WHY I hated these two so much, the first thing that popped out of my mouth was that they are Fundamentalist Christians (Yeah, Romney's a Mormon, BFD), and are both preaching from a book that encourages slavery, mass murder, incest, infanticide, the murder of your own children, rape, the list goes on and on. The most interesting response I got was "Well, that's all old testament. CHRISTIANS follow the NEW Testament much more seriously than the Old Testament." Well, I've heard  broad sweeping generalizations before, but this one had me a bit stumped. I made a bit of a cop out by simply stating that it was damned convenient for them to be able to pick and choose which bits of God's word and law that they follow.

So here's what I need help with: I would like to find New Testament examples of God Gone Wrong, General Hypocrisy, etc, etc, etc...Do any of you have a good idea of where I can start?

Tags: Confrontation, Debate, Family, New, Old, Testament

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Plato's concept shows up in C.S. Lewis's "The Last Battle" in his Chronicles of Narnia series. And that's why I bounced over in the Great Commandment stuff instead. I've seen the Xians misuse it just as you warned.

Yeah, a lot of Christians don't understand why they don't follow the OT, they just know that they don't.  Then others make up all these different kinds of laws, such as "Ceremonial" and "moral" laws, and all of it is because they are oblivious to the early Christian mindset.

I think that Platonism had an effect on Judaism before the first century.  Christianity was a more intensified form of it.  But you see allusions to Plato's cave in Colossians and Hebrews.


These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Colossians 2:17 (ESV)

For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.  Hebrews 10:1 (ESV)

Skeptics Annotated Bible might help you

I've never even heard of this. A good source to know, thank you.

Great sources of information, thanks guys! I too have had the "oh but that's the old testament" defence thrown at me.

Nice site!  Thanks for the share.

What I'd like for xtans to explain so one can understand it is the trilogy.  Isn't the god of the old testament the same as the new testament, you know, the father, son, and holy ghost all rolled into one.  It makes me wonder if god is schizoid. 

http://www.thinkatheist.com/video/coherent-consistent-and

also

This link here is a famous letter and still funny even if mainly related to the OT. The article itself is worth a quick read.

Paul has advice for slaves in Colossians 3:22, and Jesus says to beat them in Matthew 12:47.  On the latter you will be accused of taking it out of context, so read and note that it is part of the explanation for the parable, not the parable itself.

You all have been wonderful help to me, thank you a million times over! I don't think it will ever convince my parents, but at least it will give me something a bit stronger to fire at them with the next time they want to open up this particular can of worms.

It might be a help to keep in mind that you are an Atheist because you don’t believe in any god existing. Being angry or annoyed with religion is not the same thing. So there is not a great deal to be earned by deriding other peoples’ beliefs (even if they are Mormons!!). That only needs to be done when they start to preach it to you. If they are doing this in a respectful manner and because they understand it to be the right thing to do then you should respond in a similar manner. You only need to challenge what they believe while maintaining respect for that persons right to hold that view.

There is no need to challenge everyone that professes a belief in a god. It is only when religion is used to control peoples’ behaviour or to meddle in politics that you need to get militant about it. When it raises it ugly fundamentalist head and tries to ban teaching science in schools or issue decrees from the tower that you must cover your face in public then you need to get militant. However you will not get anywhere if you take the same approach with individuals.

So arm yourself with knowledge and sharpen your debating skills. If you take the time to educate yourself your confidence will grow. So it is better to use wit than sarcasm and rational debate than shouting. People will take you more seriously if they understand you became an atheist because you thought about it. They will see it is not as “a phase you are going through”. Give yourself time to take in what you learn. I have been fighting against the religious machine for 30 years and am still militant against religious indoctrination and fight to remove its claws from politics and education. I get better at it all the time because I keep learning and “thinking Atheist”. If I debate an individual I am not out to “win” the argument. I just want to challenge them to challenge themselves by creating enough doubt in their minds so that they think themselves out of their god delusion. If they do they win. You won’t ever convince people that there are no gods. They must do that for themselves. If they know you respect their views they will respect yours and ask more questions. Knowledge sets us free.

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