Well if you want to spend quality time on your knees......
who you fall in love with does not constitute as a sin, its the action thats sin. you read about why i belive it, so theirs no need to tell you again.
atheists slaughtered Jews, and thats not the only fault i see with atheism, AND ITS REALLY BIG.
but actually its not, people will continue to make mistakes, it dosent change truth of the religion, which is love not violance
ill answer to your earlier post soon, i need to check it.
Ah ok, so being gay is not a sin, just ACTING gay is a sin. So glad we cleared that up.
This is a distinction without a difference, and if you think about it for a moment you would understand that. I assume you are a straight male. If a government, or a priest, or a church told you to marry a man, could you do it? Think of the most beautiful woman you've ever seen. Think of a woman you'd like to ask out on a date, to court, to fall in love with, and to marry. If they told you you couldn't do any of those things (other than secretly feeling love in your heart that you don't act on) would you feel free? If they told you you could marry a man instead, and spend your life wedded to him, would you try to make yourself enjoy it? If they told you you were "mentally ill" for not wanting to marry a man, would you fight back or would you decide to go to a "therapy" which promised it could make you love a man.
I don't think you considered my other example, either. If you lived in a country where people said it's not illegal to be a Christian--it's just illegal to talk about Jesus, or pray, or tell others about God, or own a Bible--would you feel that you had religious freedom in that country? Or would you say that this country was "anti-Christian" in some way?
Nobody on this earth cares whether you, personally, or your buddy in the big funny hat approves of "who they fall in love with." They mind quite a bit when you decide your approval/disapproval of their love should be translated into laws that keep them from getting married, that allow them to be kicked out of homes or restaurants, refused service. They object to being locked up for falling in love, or chemically castrated, or killed as prescribed in the book of Leviticus. I said all this the first time.
i can prove god to you, but the reasons you dont believe are apart from proving the religion.
Im still looking into your other comment, sorry its a busy week for me. but im having fun with it. :)
Yes i am straight, no i would not marry a man no matter the circumstance. as iv said previously, i have no qualms against gay people, and i have gay friends. and i dont believe government should limit them. but if im supporting the bible, i cant just throw out a crucial part of it. were talking facts, not emotions.
so yes, i believe being gay is a sin, and i know its bad for society.
but i dont have anything against them, and i dont use the bible as a pretext to attack them.
did that answer you question?
i enjoy this discussion, thanks!
[quote] i can prove god to you.[/quote]
You keep saying that but you still haven't given a proof. I still want you to prove God exists without just saying "God exists". You have no proof and cannot convince me or anyone else who are atheists.
Oh, and BTW I roast babies (never eaten one alive yet), record as much copyrighted shows as possible and tear the tags off mattersses and any other tag I can get my hand on. I also, rape, pillage, burn down houses, pull the wings off flies (those I don't manage to smash while trying to catch them), have no morality, mores, I swear, cheat, steal and a lot more. But what can you, Nathaniel, expect, after all, I am an atheist. I'm sorry but I think you are a real asshole. That being said I wish you all eternity and happiness in heaven, good luck.
Sin is an archaic concept and without any factual basis. And since we are sticking to factual concepts, lets not use made up words used historically to enslave and punish people.
Atheism is not a religion. Unlike Christianity and Islam, we do not enjoy the same rights or visibility or representation and neither do we congregate or come together in the same manner. We also have differing opinions on EVERYTHING ELSE. There is no holly book or prophet. Therefore, please refrain from assuming that all atheists are a single body of people in the same manner as Christians are.
I do not know that whether atheists killed jews or not, i do not know the context of that. But that is neither here nor there. Being an atheist does not automatically make you a great person. Life is far more complicated then believing in one mass-produced truth and assuming that you have attained the highest possible sense of awareness.
Your statement about the truth of religion (any religion?) being love is absolutely ridiculous. It wreaks of propaganda. "I will love you as long as you do everything according to what I say," that is not love, that is slavery. Eternal servitude if I am being generous. Reminds me of state sponsored propaganda in Nazi Germany and North Korea. "We love you, as long as you do not question us, do everything we say and promise eternal servitude". Also reminds me of the stockholm syndrome.
sin is just a religious term for something that is wrong, wrongness does exist, correct?
yes it does effect atheism, because it is not a religion, but it is a faith. you have faith that right and wrong is just our brain tricking us. you have faith that our life is about doing what pleasures us, no matter what it may be. you have faith that week people only hurt our species.
yes, stalin is a good comparison.
but christians dont all belive raping kids is ok, shocking right?
but my point there was not to compare your religion to a person. it was to show you how stupid the point about Christianity being wrong because of a bad christian really is.
actualy, god says he loves us wether we do what he says or not.
No, sin is not a term about something that is wrong in the general sense. Sin is specifically something wrong in sense of religion alone. That is why we don't have a commandment against slavery, why homosexual behavior is a sin and as is the eating of pork and wine in Islam. This is why the concept of sin is archaic.
No, atheism is not a faith, it is a lack of faith. It is defined by the lack of faith, not it's presence. No, it is not faith that determines the wrongs and rights for us, it is experience and examples and factual information. I do not have faith that the light will turn on if i press the on switch, i expect the light to turn on based on my quantifiable past experiences with the switch. Please don't use the term in the wrong context, you've done the same with the Theory of evolution. The word theory clearly means something else in two different contexts, because that's how words are. You are trying to implement the meaning of the word "faith" from a religious context to that of used in everyday life. Remember, in science, gravity is also a theory, but the meaning of the word is very different as used in everyday life. If you don't know this already, please look it up. I find it very silly to having to explain this.
And no, I do not have faith that weak people are hurting our species. (and appalled that you would even say this) I have experience on the other hand that people who at times do not have the same physical benefits as others, have greatly moved our species forward in sciences, arts and technology. And again, I do not have faith about what pleasures me, through experience again. And remember, pleasure is also very subjective, it can vary from the context of even two different people. As a gay man I love getting my sphincter muscle fondled, but as a homophobe you probably don't, or do you?
I do not know where stalin is coming from, I didn't mention him. Please be more elaborate in your reference of him.
I don't care what all Christians believe or don't. Because I don't care about beliefs, I care about actions. What have the response of the christian community been in the support of the vatican in furthering HIV by not promoting safe sex, what have their response been in the cases of raping kids by the clergy, what have the response of the christians been in the vatican's history with "excorcism". Because homosexuality is a mental illness but saying that I can hear the spawn of the devil in my vagina is not? Google crimes of the vatican, you'll find an exhaustive list.
And finally, you are wrong again. My problem with Christianity is not because of the average christian, but because of my experience in dealing with the workings of your clergy, the history of the papal office, the hate that your bible has against homosexuals, and most importantly the untruths all the sects of Christianity encourage. Like there is a scary person in heaven who knows when I touch myself. I understand that the core beliefs of Christianity are an entity different from the average Christians, but one cannot survive without the other. Don't be naive.
I don't care if God says that he loves us, whether we do what he says or not. I care about his actions. Does he punish those who don't follow his dictatorial rule or not? Are the ten commandments only for show then? Is there no concept of sin or hell then? Why did Jesus have to die if humanity did not need to be redeemed then, because being out of favor is a precondition of being redeemed. In the history of propaganda, the propaganda machine NEVER says that it hates anyone. It insists on loving everyone, and hence legitimizes it's terrible deeds out of love...not hate.
And you need to understand that if God does truly love everyone without any precondition, that nullifies the whole concept of every religion. Again, if you are not familiar with this concept, please look it up.
The number one fault with religion is that it is simply not needed in modern times. It was an evolutionary device that has outlived its usefulness.
You personally dont need it... and on the whole you are better off without it. Of course you wont know that until you try giving up your belief. So why not give it a go?
i already converted into Christianity.
once you feel something and find it to be absolutely true, you cant pretend its meaningless.
the classic allegory of the cave
Yes, but they had their reality created by the trickery of the guards. Atheists don't "believe" in absolute truths.
Dude, if you are so convinced, why are you here? I refuse to believe that you actually thought that you could convert people here.