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Permalink Reply by Ron V on January 24, 2012 at 10:42pm

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html

 

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Permalink Reply by Rob Klaers on January 24, 2012 at 11:34pm

The problem with only taking large cats for example, a bobcat.. it can't breed with lions or tigers. Different species. Bobcats are Lynxus rufus and Lions are Panthero leo.. so you would need to take each. Now, if Noah took a shared ancestor form the Felidae Family, that would work, but then it would involve evolution in order to make the separate genus and species later. That's also not to mention the only true feline is the domestic house cat, which would again require a member of the Felidae family. 

Wolfs, coyotes, and domestic dogs.. Wolves are Canis Lupus, Coyotes are Canis Latrans and domestic dogs are also Canis Lupus.. so of those three, only Wolves and Dogs be the same species and interbreed. Though to get all three.. That would again need a common ancestor in the Canidae Family to be brought on the Ark... 

So "kind' can't even be thought of as species, or even genus,.. it would have to be family ... 2 levels up from species. 

In relation to the Ark myth, as I understand things - records show there was a localized (not world wide) flood of unusual size on or near the Tiguris River.. but I'll direct you to this video where you can get some additional info you can follow up with.. You'll want to hit about 8:00 min.. or watch the entire thing, up to you. :)  
Penn/Teller The Bible pt 1 

and the first 2 mins of this.. 

Penn/Teller The Bible pt2 

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Permalink Reply by Gretchen Becker on January 26, 2012 at 1:51am

Thanks!

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Permalink Reply by Rob Klaers on January 24, 2012 at 11:57pm

Rich.. that was in her original post. :) the parts 1 & 2 where she says Watched this online: 

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Permalink Reply by Gretchen Becker on January 26, 2012 at 1:51am

Thanks anyway, Rich! And Rob :)

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Permalink Reply by Sune Mølgaard on January 25, 2012 at 12:15am

I think you are diving into too much without a need for it. Before getting into speciation and the number of requirements, you need your opponent to answer the following:

1) Where did all that water come from, all of a sudden?

2) Where did it go afterwards?

Quite a bit of water is tied up as ice at the poles, which will result in sea level rises if melted, but nowhere near enough to cover the face of the earth, and in order to trap it there, as ice, quite a few years of changing climate (for the colder) would be needed - quite possibly more years than it would have taken for Noah to slaughter and devour each and every animal to stay alive (and he would probably have died from scurvy a long time before he got through them) ;-)

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Permalink Reply by Eoganacht on January 25, 2012 at 3:07am

that and the height of the water was above the mountains. Ergo the water would have been more than 8000 metres above today's sea level to be above Mt Everest. There is no way the icecaps can hold that much water.

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Permalink Reply by erik112358 on January 25, 2012 at 7:40am

I'm not sure that's the best approach either.  All they have to say is, "God did it.  That's how super awesome he is."

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Permalink Reply by Rob Klaers on January 25, 2012 at 10:41am

Exactly.. though I seemed to have someone stutter for a second once when I asked where in the Bible it said God modified the teeth of the predators, since somehow prior to the flood they were vegetarians... 

Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so. (Genesis 1:29-30)

I was told this applied to all living things. But then after the flood everything was fair game.. even though  

Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant. (Genesis 9:3)

I will admit until that time I hadn't heard vegetarian before the floor and carnivore after. Seems also there was no death prior, either. So if you can't die, it's no wonder people were f**king around. 

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Permalink Reply by Dylan Sloboda on January 25, 2012 at 12:53am

I'd say the easiest approach is not through biology. Instead, focus on archaeology. There are many peoples around the world that would have died in the even of a global flood. Also, as mentioned by Sune, the water would have to come from somewhere. There is evidence to suggest that even if the ice caps melted, more water would just become water vapor and there are areas around the equator that indicate sea level has never deviated more than about 20 feet.

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Permalink Reply by Katrin Schwarz on January 25, 2012 at 5:32am

There is a very good downloadable pdf article on this at

http://reports.ncse.com/index.php/rncse/article/view/44/36

"The Defeat of Flood Geology
by Flood Geology
The ironic demonstration that there is no trace of the Genesis
Flood in the geologic record"

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Permalink Reply by Robert Karp on January 25, 2012 at 8:34am

Swiping this from Akshaythe Wise:

Flood math, copied fromhere. I did all the calculations so it's just a rough estimate, not exact values but still very very telling -

Lets talk about the great flood.

Radius of Earth = 6378km

Height of Mt Everest(highest point on earth) = 8.8km

density of water at 25C = 997kg/m^3

Put that all together, & presto you find that the water that never really covered the earth would have weighed 4.5 billion trillion kgs!

Well adjusting for the mountain ranges, lets take it to be 4 billion trillion kgs!

That still is quiet a lot of water. It would have crushed everything underneath it.

Nothing would have survived from before the flood, even marine life would have died out .

The Pyramids wouldn't have survived.

And all the animals would have died from lack of oxygen at that height.

Believing in bullshit doesn't make it true.

And the weight of the water on earth is about 13000trillion Kgs, where did the rest of the water go. We're talking about 300,000 times more water than there is on earth at the moment.

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Not to mention everything in the pyramids would not have survived, mummy, papers etc.....

You can twist words, facts, numbers, math and definitions all you want. But there comes a point when believing bullshit is just that.

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