Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by MightyMateo on March 9, 2009 at 4:47pm

I just joined, started picking through the forums, interesting and disturbing. My name there is "Not_another_one" Lol. Fundamentalists and religious people from anywhere are always welcome here so I find it amusing that they are persecuting you there. I will be as respectful as possible and hope to have many good discussions but If I smell bull shit I will say so.

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Permalink Reply by jakegarland on March 9, 2009 at 7:07pm

thanks sarah! this is definitely something along the lines of what i've been looking for.

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Permalink Reply by Nelson on March 9, 2009 at 9:03pm

jake, is there real debate there or is everything you say that isn't in keeping with bibleprobe's beliefs going to get deleted?

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Permalink Reply by jakegarland on March 10, 2009 at 1:11am

there is a fair bit of debate, mostly from the less religious, more rational and non-believing members, but you get to that point with virtually every believer where they hold steadfast to an irrational, improvable belief that signals an end to any pragmatic discussion. hindrance of debate lies mainly in the admin, bibleprobe. he has delete several of my posts ( including a couple that i was quite proud of, as i had used a believer's own post to show that his words were that of an agnostic theist) and, well, here's a quote from bibleprobe after he deleted said post:
"Post anymore of your atheist dribble outside the ongoing thread for it, and we you will need to look for another perch.".
and a little later in the thread from bibleprobe:
"It would be a non-Christian thing for us to do - to pay to have your atheist dribble broadcast around the world where an unsuspecting young Christian or Messianic Jewish child may happen on to it --and get confused. That's why you need to confine your non-Christian posts to that single thread below on "Atheism/Creationism", etc. So when I delete that thread I don't have to search all over for more Godless atheist posts to delete. We do the same thing with pagan Muslim posts/threads and FreeMason (occult) threads. They don't last long here. Satanist threads are just not allowed here. Christians have been taught by God to not be "yoked" to non-believers."

this, to me, was shockingly small-minded and seems more poisonous and detrimental to a child than any "atheist dribble" i've ever heard.

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Permalink Reply by Nelson on March 10, 2009 at 1:29am

wow. yeah, that's sick. i'm certainly used to the religious holding steadfast to their irrationality. i still think it's important to offer a counterpoint to their irrationality in the hopes that, even if they don't say so to me, they at least give what i've said some thought. but if "analprobe" is going to just delete nearly all of your refutations that hit too close to the mark then what's the point right?

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Permalink Reply by jakegarland on March 10, 2009 at 3:36am

i have to believe there's a way to sway religious believers from their views, to convince them that values based on an infallible ancient textbook (whose morals are dangerously outdated and caused countless unnecessary deaths) requiring an unobtainable morality proclaimed from an impossible, tyrannical diety that harms more people than it helps. i don't want to take religion away from anyone, i just need to find a way for everyone to live without causing each other harm. there has to be a way.

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Permalink Reply by MightyMateo on March 10, 2009 at 6:24am

Lol, I have already had a couple of my posts deleted on the site so far and I joined yesterday. I think the way to accomplish the goal you set before yourself is to shift your focus a bit. I am starting to realize just how hopeless it is to argue with fundies, though it is fun, you will never get anywhere. The real work can be done when the truth that science shows us can be shared with the world, not just religious zealots. It feels like we are involved in a campaign against other religions, how far would presidential candidates get if they spent all of their time arguing amongst themselves? Information needs to be spread to everyone and hopefully those with questions will finally start to speak up. Or, we can continue arguing with the religious. I think of it like slapping someone in the face, hard, and asking if they feel it and they respond with "Nope, dont feel a thing" so you slap them again harder and ask the same question and receive the same response, lol.....it is frustrating and futile.

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Permalink Reply by Dave G on March 10, 2009 at 3:04pm

That's insanely small-minded and, to use their own language, small-souled. I do find it quite telling that he states that allowing people to even see that other viewpoints exist, particularly when young, is a non-Christian thing to do. It's essentially an admission that his religion is busy indoctrinating its followers and does not want anything to interfere with that.

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Permalink Reply by Dave G on March 11, 2009 at 11:58pm

“Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but - more frequently than not - struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God” -- Marten Luther

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with
sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use." -- Galileo

I know which one I'd side with.

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Permalink Reply by jakegarland on March 10, 2009 at 11:25pm

*UPDATE*
bibleprobe has just threatened to kick off all atheists and delete all of our posts. he has not yet done so but i just backed up all of my posts, just in case.

it was in response to a post i made, here's both:
(this first post of mine is in response to another user's comment)

posted by jakegarland, 03.10.2009

i may have slightly misunderstood your last post, so i have a couple of questions, and pardon me if my following statements seem misdirected or misinformed:

firstly you said, and i quote, (without your parentheses): "I do not believe that God himself would ever spawn evil beings, but do we receive temptations from God?"

so here are my questions to you, as well as anyone on this forum that cares to respond:

did god create everything?

do evil beings exist?

(if both yes, one would be led to the conclusion that god did, in fact, create evil beings)

if evil beings exist, and god created them, does this contradict the concept of infallible benevolence?

why does evil exist? to tempt us?

why does temptation exist?

does free will exist?

can temptation/desire actually exist if we do not have free will?

i have more but i don't want to bog down discussion, i fear i've already posed too many questions but they are all related so please bear with me.

AND BIBLEPROBE'S RESPONSE:

posted by bibleprobe1, 03.10.2009

The difference my Atheist friend is that the real God of the Bible had very good reasons for everything He did in the Od Testament. You mentioned the flood. You didn't mention the Godless evil, that existed prior to the flood. Fallen angels mixed with humans which resulted in Nephilim. Evidence of this are the many Giants who existed in the Middle east, and even the Americas. God needed to give us a fresh start away from all that evil. We need yet another one - away from the atheistic and Islamic evil that exists today.

jakegarland: You simply wouldn't confine yourself to the atheist thread below. Which is now gone so spiders don't broadcast it. So, It's getting time for you to search for another perch. Your getting on everyone's nerves in here. I knew it would come to that. It's like positive & negative. In her you are a negative charge. All of your Godless posts will soon be deleted. You simply won't confine yourself to the atheist thread below. If you think you are converting anyone to your Godlessness by posting in here you are highly mistaken. These people in here are mature Christians and Messianic Jews who can't be fooled by Satan's slick Godless arguments via you.

Why were the Amalekites anni-hilated completely by Israel? God will always protect and reward His own people. What He hates most of all is pagan "gods". He never told anyone to kill non-believers as the fake Muslim "god" Allah does.

The Amalekites are believed to have inhabited the Sinai peninsula. Why did God command the Amalekites be annihilated completely?

Because, Amalekites were the first pagan terrorists who were hell-bent on wiping out Israel - the real God's Covenant people. Amalekites would lay and wait to murder Israelites. The Amalekites were distinguished in the holy Scripture by two villainous characteristics: cruelty and cowardice. What makes the Amalekites particularly interesting is that these two characteristics are always glaringly present when an Amalekite is involved in any Biblical story. In every story in which an Amalekite is privileged to participate, the reader witnesses this extraordinarily evil people not only committing cruel acts, but at the same time committing those acts in an unashamedly cowardly manner. They were warriors, yes, but they were not noble warriors. They never fought a fair fight. Reference

Amalekites have much in common with the hate filled satanically-inspired Muslims of today, who preach hatred and death to Israel and the USA, each Friday in their mosques. The fate of the Amalekites should serve as a warning to Muslim terrorists. Speaking about the real biblical God (not the fake hate filled Allah). God CANNOT commit any unjust act. And He will always protect Israel from any attempts to annihilate her.

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Permalink Reply by Nelson on March 11, 2009 at 12:09am

so he's saying that if god does it then it's always just. so god is just no matter what he does. the concept of justice is now meaningless because no matter what his god does he is still just, his actions still represent justice.

interesting to see him admit that his god is capricious and the concept of justice is arbitrary.

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Permalink Reply by Scott Ferguson on March 11, 2009 at 1:28am

I was banned about an hour ago for asking them where they keep their drugs... they think that the aliens that supposedly were in Roswell in the 1940s were infarct demons from hell controlled by the devil.
They claim on the site that they do not come from another planet but come from another dimension which is hell.

Im sorry but that is the biggest bunch of bullshit I have ever heard.

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