I feel ashamed of some atheists.
first .. I'm not even atheist, I am agnostic. (but I'm still going to hell.)
There are some situations in which I feel the need to defend religion and its followers from hateful atheists.
Everyone has the right to believe what they want to believe, and to worship what they want to worship. There is no rule in any lawbook that says otherwise. You can be Jewish, Buddhist, you can worship the ground, nature, space, or goats. It doesn't matter, you have that right as a citizen. (Now, keep in mind I'm talking about America because I am not sure about other places.)
There are Christians who openly bash and persecute peoples of different religions and cultures. There are Jewish, Muslim, and Buddhist people who do the same thing. Pagans and Wiccans, Satanists, and Atheists.
And unfortunately..
There are some atheist people out there who are unforgiving and unrelenting in their bashing and hatefulness towards peoples of any religion.
The one thing I was taught in life were morals and ethics. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Christians preach love for all, and there is a bible verse in which it says (roughly, don't know word for word)"He who gets slapped in one cheek, turn the other and ask no questions, for it is your duty to forgive." I took this to mean that you should let people walk on you. Of course, they don't, and neither does an atheist. Unless that's your personality.
So occasionally, I will meet an atheist whose purpose in life is to be hateful towards Christian people. I feel ashamed of these people. I am, as agnostic, a part of this "disbelieving blasphemous group" and people like those who actively seek to be hateful offend me. Their screams of "GOD ISN'T REAL, YOU'RE A STUPID MORON AND YOU NEED TO JUST KILL YOURSELF AND GO TO YOUR HEAVEN SO THE REST OF US CAN LIVE PEACEFULLY" and etc are offensive to me.
They are the types of atheists that religious people think of when they think of atheists. It is human nature to take a little bit of good and a mouthful of bad, and then complain and bitch and moan about the bad, while ignoring that tiny piece of goodness.
These are the same atheists that scream respect from religious people and tell the religious people they are not following their God's wishes by being angry and spiteful in return.
This comes back to, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
Religious people can be just as hateful, but I am not talking about that group, I am talking about OUR group. They should be ashamed of themselves just as much as hateful atheists should be ashamed of theirs.
Sorry this was so long and I hope I don't lose any friends over it. It's just something I was thinking about.
There are some situations in which I feel the need to defend religion and its followers from hateful atheists.
Everyone has the right to believe what they want to believe, and to worship what they want to worship. There is no rule in any lawbook that says otherwise. You can be Jewish, Buddhist, you can worship the ground, nature, space, or goats. It doesn't matter, you have that right as a citizen. (Now, keep in mind I'm talking about America because I am not sure about other places.)
There are Christians who openly bash and persecute peoples of different religions and cultures. There are Jewish, Muslim, and Buddhist people who do the same thing. Pagans and Wiccans, Satanists, and Atheists.
And unfortunately..
There are some atheist people out there who are unforgiving and unrelenting in their bashing and hatefulness towards peoples of any religion.
The one thing I was taught in life were morals and ethics. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Christians preach love for all, and there is a bible verse in which it says (roughly, don't know word for word)"He who gets slapped in one cheek, turn the other and ask no questions, for it is your duty to forgive." I took this to mean that you should let people walk on you. Of course, they don't, and neither does an atheist. Unless that's your personality.
So occasionally, I will meet an atheist whose purpose in life is to be hateful towards Christian people. I feel ashamed of these people. I am, as agnostic, a part of this "disbelieving blasphemous group" and people like those who actively seek to be hateful offend me. Their screams of "GOD ISN'T REAL, YOU'RE A STUPID MORON AND YOU NEED TO JUST KILL YOURSELF AND GO TO YOUR HEAVEN SO THE REST OF US CAN LIVE PEACEFULLY" and etc are offensive to me.
They are the types of atheists that religious people think of when they think of atheists. It is human nature to take a little bit of good and a mouthful of bad, and then complain and bitch and moan about the bad, while ignoring that tiny piece of goodness.
These are the same atheists that scream respect from religious people and tell the religious people they are not following their God's wishes by being angry and spiteful in return.
This comes back to, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
Religious people can be just as hateful, but I am not talking about that group, I am talking about OUR group. They should be ashamed of themselves just as much as hateful atheists should be ashamed of theirs.
Sorry this was so long and I hope I don't lose any friends over it. It's just something I was thinking about.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Aric on -
I hope you don't see the majority of atheists as being this way. I know there are certainly some atheists that are like this, but it seems to me the majority of the atheists that are like that became atheists because they got mad at the church, feel like they were wronged by god, or are just trying to rebel. They rarely seem to have come to their decision after a great deal of critical thinking and research.
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Permalink Reply by Matthew on -
Aric, I absolutly disagree with you. I would have to say that a VERY large number of people here on this site are ex thiest because they have found the light of reason and not the darkness of faith in a religion. Faith is the opposite of reason. I dont feel wronged by god at all becuase there is no god. IF there was a god I might be mad at why he lets soo much bad stuff in the world. But how arrogant are thiests thinking that this universe was made for humans alone. Millions of galaxies and only humans in it? Thats what I call arrogant.
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Permalink Reply by Reggie on -
Mom! Dad! Quit fighting!
But I have to split the difference here. I think Aric's point is that the more vehement of atheists have been wronged in some way, it has become personal, and this feeds their vitriol. But Matthew says that many who were not wronged by religion in a personal manner still have a right to be just as cranky because these theists are playing fast and loose with reality.
It's hard to disagree with either of you, really.
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Permalink Reply by Jacqueline Sarah Homan on -
And then you've weird people like me who were philosophically ahead of their years who rejected faith while being a young child. :) See...atheists come in all flavors. We each have a unique perspective that led us to the same conclusion.
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Permalink Reply by Reggie on
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I doubt that you are as strange as you may think you were. You may have followed that instinct better than others, though. That would make you more unique, for sure.
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Permalink Reply by Aric on
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I agree that it is completely reasonable to be upset towards theists who try force their religion on everyone. I have certainly been upset at theists for doing so. However, the kind of anger that Desirai described in her post (Such as telling theists,"GOD ISN'T REAL, YOU'RE A STUPID MORON AND YOU NEED TO JUST KILL YOURSELF AND GO TO YOUR HEAVEN SO THE REST OF US CAN LIVE PEACEFULLY") is completely uncalled for even in the most heated debate.
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Permalink Reply by Aric on
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You misunderstood what I was saying. I agree with everything you said in your statement! I do not think that anyone on this site has come to their atheism for any of the reasons I listed in my previous post. I was referring to the kind of atheists that Desirai talked about in her post. Desirai was talking about the kind of atheists who are extremely angry at theists. I have met people who claim to be atheists that act the way that Desirai described and I can assure you that they were highly disagreeable people, even to me. What I was saying is that I think that the people who describe themselves as atheists and act the way Desirai described are not really atheists but claiming to be atheists as a way to rebel. I hope that clears up the misunderstanding.
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Permalink Reply by James A on -
I am not sure of how the majority of atheists made the decision to not believe in a god. But, as far as myself, I did it because of research and critical thinking. I studied the Bible, history, archeology, and science. It certainly wasn't for any of the reasons you listed.
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Permalink Reply by Aric on
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I'm sorry there was a misunderstanding. I was not accusing anyone on this site of becoming an atheist for any of the reasons I listed in my post. Please look at my response to Matthew to see my detailed explanation as to what I meant in my first post. Again, sorry for any misunderstanding there may have been.
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Permalink Reply by Carolanne on -
There's nothing wrong with being an anti-theist. Most Christians deserve what is said to them.
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Permalink Reply by Jacqueline Sarah Homan on
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Hi Desirai :)
First, I would never "de-friend" or "diss" someone just because they might believe differently.
My main, if not my sole, issue with Christians (in the US, the country where I live) is that they're not content to "live and let live." They want to compel everyone else to live under their religion's rules.
These are the rules that are behind women and gays having dhimmi status in the US...the "beacon of freedom" in the West.
Well, it's not the "beacon of freedom" when women and girls are denied the right to have control over their own bodies and lives, or when a committed same-sex couple cannot enjoy the full benefits of legally recognized marriage.
Washed-up has-been singer Pat Boone (a fundamentalist Christian) equated gays demanding equal rights (the right to marry) with the terrorist bombers of Mumbai. He has also denounced women having the right to contraception and abortion and equal rights under the US Constitution. So have most other prominent Christians in the US that have political pull in high places.
I can tolerate being preached at (only to a point). I can tolarate Christmas displays, I'm not a Grinch. But what I cannot and *will not* tolerate, is the deprivation of human and civil rights of certain groups (women, gays, non-believers) because of "electionizing" from church pulpitsand shaping educational and social policies that effect me and everyone else who doesn't share those beliefs.
To put it bluntly, when an overwhelming religious majority shapes and effects public policy and rule of law that denies me as a woman equal rights as a citizen under the US Constitution; and which denies me (and countless other women and girls) access to reliable contraception (or an abortion) — thereby inserting their religion in between my legs and injecting their beliefs on ALL women's sex lives because of religion, I have a HUGE problem with that.
When religionists lobby Congress and state lawmakers to pass discriminatory laws like Prop 8, I have a HUGE problem with that.
When religionists want to have a man arrested under "obscenity laws" because he bought some sexy animated comic books from Japan for his own personal use, I have a HUGE problem with that.
I don't tell them who to marry, how to make love, or whether or not to have sex for procreation purposes only, what books to read, what entertainment in which to partake, and what to wear or eat. If they would kindly do everyone else the same courtesy, I'd have no issue with them. At all. Seriously.
But that is not what has been happening in the US over the past 20-30 years.
I got an email from a distraught single father (a widower who bought one of my books) whose 6 yr old little boy came home from school traumatized because another child (a Christian child) told him he was un-American and would burn forever in hell. This 45 yr old dad was asking me what to do. His child has not slept well in over a week. Since I'm not a parent, I felt horrible that I was inept to advise him in the most appropriate manner.
I do not blame the little Christian child for what s/he said. But I DO blame the adults for promulgating this sort of hatred and bigotry and using it to get public policy and laws passed that take away others' rights.
When someone uses their First Amendment right to "freedom of religion" to get away with taking away others' rights — that is what will turn me from "Jacqueline the Sweetheart" into the "Sarah Connor of Atheism and Feminism" in short order, know what I mean?
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Permalink Reply by Samantha N. on -
I completely agree with you. That is something I can't tolerate and is what really urks me about religion (or "grinds my gears")...there are plenty of tolerant individuals out there who believe in God (or Gods) and I would never harass or be mean to those people.
However, another problem I have is when people support a church / religious institution (ie through money and sending their children there) and claim to be faithful to that religion - yet at the same time tell me that they support equal rights for all people and are also supportive of things like abortion, contraception, etc. I just get angry at that - you can believe in what you want but why not find a more accepting church, closer to your views? why are you giving these people support if you disagree with their views? I tend to get angry at those people (ahem, like one of my good friends) and though I want to stay out of it completely, I can't help but bring up these discrepancies in a respectful manner....which usually leads to them being overly defensive...and in turn me wanting to knock my head against a wall.
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