Yes, I understand how it is portrayed – everything went poof and there it was but I know that there are people who have earned their doctorates in biology who certainly know a lot more about the subject than I do and yet see evolution as a major problem to be corrected. Does anyone know the arguments that are used when adults are in the room? Yes, I know the child ones (it is a matter of faith/ God doesn't make mistakes/ Evolution does not feel right/ I don't want to live in a world that is so meaningless/ if evolution is real than we are all psychopathic beasts etc)

At some point someone said to an intelligent man that the accepted theory of evolution is less likely than the Noah story and convinced him that it was true and I would like very much to know what those talking points are because I am certain that I will have this debate with a few people some time this year and if I make up my counter points on the spot I may come across as condescending or worse – I could be stumped.

I will note also that the last scientist I heard insisted that every part of the Genesis story was pure metaphor except the part where the bible says that there is no evolution which of course the bible does not say- I need to be ready for some twisted logic-- All right (I beat my chest) How in the fuck is creationism possible?

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Now, let me give you a quick rundown on evolution:

So to answer your question: "How in the fuck is creationism possible?" - it isn't.

RE: "if evolution is real than we are all psychopathic beasts etc" - Why? We and chimpanzees, orangutans and gorillas all evolved from a common source, how many psychopathic chimpanzees, orangutans or gorillas have you heard of? Most of those are vegetarians, and don't even kill to eat, but live shy, quiet lives in the shadows of the rainforests.

Why can't evolution be true, and at the same time, we simply be kind, caring, loving Humans?

Please point out the psychopath for me --

The only two people in my life that are close enough to debate with, that actually believe in creationism, are  immediate family members. One of them just rides over anything and everything said in defense of Evolution, and then starts loudly declaring the fact that you can't be a good person unless you're a Christian and that Richard Dawkins is treated as the Atheist's God, not sure what either of those have to do with the argument. And the other one, although he has not been clinically tested because he is highly paranoid of western medicine, I believe is either Bipolar or mildly Schizophrenic. So there you have it, two prime examples of creationists, a bully and someone who is quite literally insane. I do not think there is a rational thought process behind creationism, I doubt there could be. I understand being dissatisfied with Darwinian theory but I can't understand almost entirely dismissing everything we know about modern science. Maybe I'm too hard on creationists but I have yet to hear a rational argument supporting a creation theory, in my opinion most of them are either deluded or crazy. Sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my intention : )

First of all, Sepia, that's an interesting user name, and not a forgettable one.

Secondly, RE: "Sorry if I offended anyone" - do you know where you are? Who did you expect to offend with that statement? I'm thinking, no one --

Sorry for the late response-- more specifically I recently learned that my 13 yr old nephew is a young earth creationist- his mother (whom I only met once briefly) takes him to a lot of church and fills his head with nonsense. I read the Answers in Genesis which mostly asks "how do scientist really know how far away stars are? How do they really know that their dating technology works? etc" and then they do not encourage you to find the answers. I was really hoping that was not the best resource. I do know that there are real biologist who believe in creationism- I know also that the way they explain it is wildly different from one crowd to another, just like an apologist would never tell a professional debater that the bible has no consistency problems but has no qualms telling his congregation such a thing. I understand Evolution, natural selection, Dating, the epic of Gilgamesh, the many many problems with the Noah story but I have not heard the opposing side-(I don't think I have)- I don't think the entire argument is based on faith- the creationist scientists typically say that evolution and modern dating methods are unlikely to be correct based on some research that they never cite- and I bet it exists in some form. Whether or not is good research is a separate matter. But I hope I can find some of that research or some of those reasons. I seriously hope Answers in Genesis is not the official position

And I seriously hope you don't use Answers in Genesis for anything other than comic relief. This is the Internet - it's loaded with factual information, by experts, regarding Evolution, the origin of the Universe, and anything else you'd like to know, you just have to do a little digging.

"I know that there are people who have earned their doctorates in biology who certainly know a lot more about the subject than I do and yet see evolution as a major problem to be corrected"

Myth - as someone with a science background and someone working with high complexity instruments in a scientific field, there are not many people I know with advanced degrees who do not understand, accept, and/or use evolution in science.  Even "Christians" I know have positions reminiscent of deists.

Creationism invokes the question - what created any proposed "creator?"

As to your final question, it ISN'T f&%#ing possible. It isn't possible simply because it violates all known natural laws. But the more profound question is how sad it is that you are unprepared to deal with these deluded ignoramuses.
As with most Americans (though your name - Ferguson, right? - suggests you are British), the reason you find it difficult to argue with creationists is likely that you were not provided with a thorough enough understanding of the Theory of Evolution. Few American teachers, even science teachers, have more than the most rudimentary understanding of the Theory of Evolution. Consequently, if you were taught evolution at all (which is unlikely), it was probably in a very cursory and superficial manner, whether in an American school or any of the many religiously affiliated British elementary schools.
If you truly understood the details of the theory, you could easily counter, as I delight in doing, any creationist nonsense with clear, concise, common sense, scientific arguments.
So my advice to you is to read some books by people who DO explain it clearly, like Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Carl Sagan, Michael Schermer, Stephen Jay Gould, and countless other authors who are truly knowledgeable on the subject.
Or, if you don’t want to spend the time and money, you can reply to this post with any specific questions about any aspect of evolution and I will be happy to answer them for you.
If, on the other hand, you choose NOT to deeply immerse yourself in the details of the Theory of Evolution, you shouldn’t bother arguing with creationsts at all, because you can be sure they know the all of the talking points of THEIR delusion.

@Dale - Fergus, much like Angus and Haggis, are fine old Scottish words, Laddie --

If god created haggis-in-a-can he must be Scottish




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