From what I’ve seen, WomenAgainstFeminism isn’t against equity feminism. It is pushback against the highly politicized “modern” or “radical” feminism elements that are gaining traction in colleges and social media.
I think a lot of people have gotten fed up with ideological woo like rape culture, patriarchy theory, infantilization of women, bogus statistics regarding wages and violence, and the whole “menz is evil” rhetoric. Their mirror, the fringe members of the MRA movement, are just as bad.
The biggest problem with the toxic radfem element is that they’ve stopped being about equality, and have become more about identity politics. Their tribalist culture, and in-group vs. out-group warfare is giving feminism as a whole a bad name in the same way that fundamentalist theists give the broader theist community a bad name.
That extreme school of feminism is schizophrenic. On the one hand, they portray women as strong and on the other they feed the notion of helplessness and victimhood. Ironically, they often appeal to the same government for redress that, on other occasions, they portray as paternalistic.
Yup, it's inconsistent and incoherent because it's all about identity politics. "We" are good (SJWs, 'Feminists', etc) and "the other" is bad. Behavior is only relevant as to whether you are with the in-group or not. It's pathetic.
I wouldn't pin it on feminism though.
I'm not. I consider myself an equity feminist within the broader context of being humanist. My criticism is with the small group that indulges in identity politics and woo ideology.
It gives feminism a bad name if people stop listening to ideas and arguments and instead choose to blend all viewpoints together as if feminism is some homogenized thing.
That's why I made the theist comparison. They are a small but vocal part of the overall group, but they are still a part of that group and opinions about a part are often applied to the whole. We see that all the time with the No True Scotsman counter in the theist/atheist debate.
What I'm saying is it's a senseless criticism. Radfem does not give feminism a bad name
This is where we disagree. You, and I, and many others do understand that difference, but many do not. Many people see militant Islam as the norm for Muslims, some see Evangelical Christians as the norm for Christians, each and every demographic has a stereotype that has wide (if shallow) acceptance. We end up returning to No True Scotsman with each criticism of each fringe group.
You have to look no farther than the WomenAgainstFeminism hashtag. The fine point criticisms run against the identity politics, but still splash across the broader spectrum that wears the Feminism label.
I'm not saying that it's right, I'm just saying that is a part of the mix.
No matter what your position is, there are people who will respond irrationally. Perhaps you can lessen or worsen the blow...
Exactly. I'm talking about a small group of people within the larger position of feminism who are themselves acting irrationally and worsening the blow.
What. Do. You. Expect. Them. To. Do? I don't understand why you don't answer this question?
I. Do. Not. Expect. Anything. I didn't answer, because I have zero expectation of a behavior from any part of the spectrum. I've always seen expecting a demographic to police individuals within the group as unreasonable.
I simply expressed criticism of a small but obnoxious element (and points of their ideology) within a broader group that I generally agree with, and see their actions as "worsening the blow" for that broader group.
That negative impact is not caused by radical feminists; it's cause by people incapable of making distinctions… it's not a bad name they are giving to feminism, but rather a bad name given to feminism because irrational people cannot separate the unique views
I agreed that it’s not fair that more people don’t make greater distinctions, but they don’t. You can specify the blame wherever you like, but that changes neither the behavior of toxic identarians, nor the resulting backlash against feminism as a whole.
why are you turning your gaze to radfems for the black eye overall feminism receives rather than the people throwing the fist?
I think I’ve been clear that my criticisms have been aimed at a part of the radfem/SJW community that plays identity politics & in-group vs. out-group warfare, along with specific pieces of their ideology.
Once you label yourself a victim, you are essentially throwing in the towel and giving up. You're saying you can't get out of your situation without tugging on a patriarchal/matriarchal sleeve.
And what I said was about what I call "old school" feminism, which is the kind of man-hating feminism that a lot of the "women against feminism" reject. They don't see every man (even the ones they may dislike and think of as 'part of the problem') as part of some sort of a conspiracy but rather as ignorant.
Do we still disagree?