But I want to know more about atheism. What do YOU believe?

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Yep. There sure is.

RE: "We don't bite girl." - except Unseen, he not only bites, he nuzzles, and he has rabies.

How is it possible that Jesus never existed?

Lack of evidence and conflicting evidence with proven history.

And I believe the Bible is proof that God exists. How does one say it's just made up?

Because the bible was put together around 300CE by Emperor Constantine at the Council of Nicaea. Before that it was just loose writings and stories. Many stories were not included into the official bible, such as the story where Jesus explodes a snake, or where he as a child kills his friend just so he can resurrect him to prove a point.

Especially since there are so many prophesies that have already come true.

Self fulfilling prophecies. Many of them were also doctored to appear fulfilled, and even more never came true. For example, the disciples seeing the second coming within their lifetime.

It was taught that atheists have no "center" and that it ends up being whatever you make it.

To an extent that is right. We have no central belief. We have only one central DISBELIEF. Aside from that, you just go about your life as you see fit, and live with the consequences of your actions.

But to the Christian faith Jesus is center, and he's all we need.

Then why do countries have laws? Why doesn't society just function on the teachings of Jesus. If Jesus is all you need, then slavery would still be totally cool, and "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ."

I probably don't belong on this forum

This is a public forum. Everyone who wants to participate and have a civilized discussion is welcome. If you came here with good intentions, wanting to learn about atheism, or just have an adult conversation about belief and disbelief, or getting high, or cats, you are in the right place. But if you are here with intent to proselytize, to convert or preach, you will not achieve your goals, and you will find no purchase or kindness in this community.

So, choose why you are here, and whether you belong. We have a few theists on this forum that contribute fairly regularly, so this is not an "atheists exclusive" club.

Mercedes, regarding one of your statements, "But to the Christian faith Jesus is center, and he's all we need." - I'd like to correct that, BELIEF in Jesus is center, it's the belief that is all- important, without it, Christianity falls apart, which is why you're threatened with hell fire if you don't believe.

Please name one prophecy in the bible that came true.  Remember, you'll need to provide evidence that the prophecy was written before the event, and you'll need to provide a prophecy that is quite specific about the event.

When you say 'God exists' - to which god are you referring?  Do you mean Yahweh?  Do you think Jesus was his son?  Can a father be his own son?  If a father and son are two different people, then how can they be one?

I don't really know that much specifically, but the prophecy of Jesus coming for example. That was written in the Old Testament.

As far as the trinity, yah, Father, Son, Holy Spirit are all the same person, much like I can be a mother, a daughter and a friend, but I'm still only one person.

I'm not trying to preach at anyone, I was just curious because some of the things that were taught intrigued me and I wanted to find out more on my own. I'm not trying to offend anyone either.

but the prophecy of Jesus coming for example. That was written in the Old Testament.

I will leave this one to Heather to debunk.

I can be a mother, a daughter and a friend, but I'm still only one person.

But you are only yourself. You are not your daughter or your friend. You are you, your daughter is a different unique individual, as is your friend. Three different people, not one. If your daughter went around saying how she is you, she would quickly be committed to an insane asylum, and vice versa.

The problem with the Trinity isn't that it's a logical fallacy. The problem with the Trinity is that it is never mentioned or explained in the bible. Some of the later writings hint at it, and in John Jesus does say "I and the Father are one," but in the other gospels Jesus hints that the father is greater than him (Jesus). Plus, in Genesis God talks about "we" and "us" so Christians have to believe in the Trinity if they don't want to consider that the Genesis story came from earlier stories with many gods.

If god is real, and is three persons in one, I would say god is like a time traveller. I want to discuss an idea out loud, but I don't want to share it with anyone. So I go back in time twenty minutes. The earlier me asks the later me questions, and the later me answers, not with things the earlier me doesn't know, but things he hasn't though of yet. Then the second me gets hungry, so I go back in time again, and the third me makes pancakes to serve to the second me. I exist in three places at once, doing three different things, yet I am only one person, and you can't say any one 'version' is more or less me.

Interesting analogy Physeter.  However, I think your pancakes would be cold.

This trinity bloke god sounds like he has multiple personality disorder.  What if he is insane?  How does one deal with a crazy god?

....buy him a hedgehog?

You can, however, say that none of the versions of you are involved in a father/son relationship.  The entire point of Christianity, as sick as it might seem, is that Yahweh loved his own creation so much that he would let his only son (forgetting the sons of Yahweh mentioned in Genesis 6) be tortured in order to appease his anger at his own creation.

Your version, without a son, has Yahweh time traveling to torture himself to appease his anger at his own creation - rather than, perhaps, traveling through time to fix his mistake, which he never makes, because he is perfect and if you question that then he'll burn you alive forever because he's really touchy.  No matter how you look at it you have one serious sadomasacist to worry about.

I wasn't aware that Jesus is quoted as saying "I and the father are one."  I was aware of the Comma Johanneum which claims that Yahweh, the Word, and the witness are one, or some such shit - although that is known to be a forgery added to the manuscript centuries after being written.

John 10:

29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

In Matthew, Mark, and Luke, Jesus makes very few claims about himself and tells those who ask how to be saved that they should follow the commandments. In John, Jesus hints in many places and sometimes explicitly states that God is his Father, and that Jesus and the Father are one, and says the way to be saved is to believe in Jesus. It's kind of odd that all four are considered infallible scripture.

The version you describe there about Yhwh torturing himself is basically how I always understood Christian thought. I was taught only someone perfect and sinless (e.g. God) could take the punishment for others. Growing up with that belief, it made all kinds of sense to me.

The Jews of that time have a way of saying "son" to indicate that someone has the qualities of something, or is like something, hence how the brothers James and John were called "sons of thunder". 


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