What kind of a society (sans a god) do you think we would have if everyone believed they were born bad,couldn't help but to do bad--but that it didn't matter because they would never get thrown in jail.
In my opinion--it would be and IS chaos, but it IS chaos due to the influence of Christianity which holds to the above meta theory. (sin, repent, sin, repent--repeat when necessary without consequence)
So what is your view of a society that could do whatever they wanted to without consequences.
"When the white missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land."
-- Desmond Tutu --
The same thing happened in America, where the reservations were put on some of the most inhospitable land in the country. Except in Alberta (where I was born) there are some reserves that are right on top of oil--which they have the rights to. Most reserves however, are in abject poverty--what the white Christians did to the Native Indians and the Africans truly is a disgrace.
CHIEF DAN GEORGE , CANADIAN INDIAN CHIEF & film director, 1910-?: "When the White man came we had the land & they had the Bibles, now they have the land & we have the Bibles." (source)
Either Chief Dan George or Desmond Tutu is a plagiarist.
Thanks Cathy, I'll check it out. The plight of Native Americans is one of the most interesting historical topics..The "ghost dance" story is beyond sad. Your posts got me all "fired-up" again. I suffered in catholic school all the way thru High School. I KNOW first hand what those people are all about.
I am happy to hear that. It is only when people are "fired up" that change can occur, and if we want this world to survive--we need change. We need positive change.
Letting go of myths that promote the idea that humans are "born sinners" and cannot help but to do bad things is a step towards this goal.
Hi Cathy, Brenda has posted a blog entry which I think supports the lunacy of Christianity quite well. I think you might find that her point is very much supporting your thoughts.
Thanks, I read her post and I agree with her. Westboro actually does promote Biblical Christianity" --and I am here to help expose Christianity for what it is, and how it influences us all--whether we are Christian or not. That has been quite evident in the responses to this post. Almost everyone has been influenced by Christian dogma, which is why so many non Christians believe we are somehow born innately "bad" and cannot help but to do bad things because well, we are "only human" after all. Such BS!! For the most part it is just a matter of choice. We can choose to do right the first time--unless of course we have no "free will"--lolol--but that is for another post.
A few years ago I had the opportunity of chatting with Shirley Phelps, the matriarch of the Phelps clan, and what she has become is due to her experiences. From our conversation, I also believe she was abused. I actually fee sorry for her.
Cathy, I am a Brit, and grew up in London, England. The Christian influence in real life just isn't there. I know people point me to articles that discuss the UK and religion, but honestly when you live there as long as I did, you do not even expect to trip over Christian tripwires.
Since I came to live in the US in 2010, I have seen way too much "God" in your politics, and in the way of life in the US in general... and I am astounded. Actually, Vermont is one of the least religious states in the US, so I am pretty grateful I landed here and not in the south.
Having said that, I am still incredulous at the unbelievable authority religion carries in the US and it is only really through discourse on this site, that I have come to realise what a tragic disaster that is for rational thinking.
As far as Shirley Phelps is concerned, I'm sorry she was abused. However, I know many victims of abuse (my wife, for example) and I don't think it has to lead to the kind of behaviour that WBC promote. Basically, she may have reason for being such an arse, but that doesn't reduce or excuse the fact that she is one.
Ammonium sulfide is produced as a result of a reaction between hydrogen sulfide and ammonia - it is what makes a "stink bomb". Just because I know what makes up a stink bomb doesn't make it less stinky :)
Can you tell me what is the average Brit's conception of human nature?
I'd like to try to answer that, Cathy, but I'm not really sure exactly what you want to know. Could you be a bit more specific so I can give some thought to answering you properly?
Let me rephrase that then--What is your view of human nature?
No no, I do understand that you are asking for a Brit perspective, and I'm seriously interested in answering. I have about a million or so views on human nature, so all I was asking was clarity on which area you're discussing.
I think if we look at our vocabulary, that helps us understand. For example, we have words like "temptation". That kind of defines indulgence (yes I know there is a religious connotation, but not for me).
I think it is inherent in human nature to help others. If someone falls over, it is very natural for us to help them up. I don't think it is inherent in humans to put others before themselves, except when the others are their children. Perhaps that is an evolutionary trait.
I think that what happens to you in your developing years has a deep implication on how you interface with the world as an adult.
I think that in the UK, the average Brit expects to be responsible for himself. If we trip over the pavement and break a leg, we do not automatically reach for a lawyer.
We don't have a constitution, so we are not constantly pointing to a rule-book. Our laws alter and are amended organically, there are no real absolutes (other than murder, or the obvious things). I wonder if the American propensity for adhering to rulebooks (like a bible) comes from having a constitution, or vice versa.
The happiest people I've met are the poorest Fijians, for whom God sits at their table and walks by their side, and yet they care for each other and laugh like children.
I'm an honorary member of a Maori tribe, who talk about their dead relatives as if they are alive and simply in another room.
I think humans are capable of the most amazing deeds and the most heinous crimes. I think human nature spans across both extremes. We are cruel and kind, violent and peaceful, angry and calm, generous and stingy. We have every extreme of behaviour within our ranks. Most of all, we can choose how we will live our moral and emotional lives.
The fact that people choose to restrict their ability to live and love, based on an absentee deity's antiquated scrolls, is a source of sadness to me. I genuinely pity them.
In the UK, we are very offhand about religion, and when someone states categorically that they are of a religious denomination, most of us feel a bit uncomfortable, and the standard response is, "Oh, I'm not really religious" and the subject is changed.
Is this the kind of thing you are asking me, or have I misunderstood?