So my parents (who are Christians) and I just had a huge debate about the supposed "truth" of Christianity, homosexuality and reasons for belief. I'd love to hear some rational opinions about some of the points they made (which I wholeheartedly disagreed with). Feel free to pick any points you'd like to discuss. Here they are:
"When it comes to homosexuals, I don't hate the sinner, I hate the sin. The human body is not designed to have sex with someone of the same sex. That's why God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve."
"The Bible has PREDICTED the fall of Israel, it has also predicted an event in which the sky went black and there was fire, but no scientists had an explanation for what happened."
"There have been people diagnosed with incurable cancer and the doctors had no idea what it was but the person prayed and they were cured."
"Evolution doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make sense how there was one organism, an amoeba or whatever, that just divides and evolves into different species. And where did that come from? There has to be a creator." <---This is one where I brought up circular reasoning. Also, can someone provide some good sources for abiogenesis for me? I admit I had a hard time explaining this one (and they simply don't understand the process to begin with).
"I've read bits about other religions, Islam, Shintoism etc and they just don't make sense to me the way the Bible does."
"The Bible does not condone slavery or rape or any of those things. When people read that stuff they read it out of context, but when you read the rest of the chapter it actually makes sense."
"People always ask 'Why did God create Cancer?' - well God didn't create cancer, cancer is just something that's part of man's existence. But either way he allows it so that people can learn to be closer to God. People always bring that up when it comes to suffering kids, but God has a reason why he does certain things."
"People are all born into sin. Babies are a product of their sinful parents so it's up to them to repent when they become familiar with the word of God."
"What people need to understand is that not everything in the Bible is supposed to be taken literally. A lot of it is figurative."
"Sure there are people from all different religions, but the Bible says that they'll all be introduced to the word of God and it will be up to them to decide whether they follow Jesus or not, but only those who follow Jesus will be saved."
"People come across tough times in their lives, particularly when they're not aligned with the word of God, but then they realize that as soon as they start to read the Bible and live by God that things start to look up. That's no coincidence."
"God sent his own son down to wash away the sins of man. Man has a choice to be sinful, God gives them free will. There's a set of laws that God sets out for people to follow and if they don't, there are consequences."
"What I know is that the disciples who spoke to God were the ones who wrote the Bible, actually, Moses was one of the only people who was PROVEN to have seen God, but their word is good enough for me. "
And OBTW for anyone who doesn't know this (I imagine most people here do, but I am sure at least some in Reesie's family don't):
It doesn't make sense how there was one organism, an amoeba or whatever, that just divides and evolves into different species
An amoeba is actually a very *advanced* form of life, being a eukaryote and all that. (A "single celled" eukaryote in fact has multiple organisms living in symbiosis; there is the "main" cell and a bunch of mitochondria, which used to live independently but now are symbiotic. Plants also have chloroplasts which (if I recall correctly) are also assumed to be descended from symbiotic bacteria.
Anaerobic bacteria and extremophiles are quite primitive but I don't know if they are the most primitive extant organisms.
Why do you want rational opinions, your parents are being irrational, the irrational are not swayed by rational opinions.
Threats may work better for you, tell them you will become Islamic if they don't embrace secularism.
Or maybe go out to the front yard and burn a biBle that might do it.
Or give them a pigeon feather and tell them it's from an anGel you and some buddies shot and roasted for dinner last night. Ask them if they would like some of the left-overs, tastes just like chicken...blessed chicken of course.
Just tell them you Love them and always will, then go and make whoopie with an Atheist.
Haha, I don't think that would go over well to threaten them - or anybody for that matter ;)
I'm just tired of them making bigoted statements about other people's lifestyles and letting a religion that they've done minimal research into themselves dictate their decisions, actions and permeate every conversation. I think if they're so adamant about voicing their opinions, they should at least be educated as to what it is they believe in.
"...they should at least be educated as to what it is they believe in. "
Sadly, this can be a hard sell. Over the years I have noticed things that were said by members of my family. One that was often mentioned by my mother and grand-mother, 'The big dipper is upside down, this must mean rain'. I mentioned to my to mom atleast a few times that 'the stars of the Big Dipper are several light years away, and if memory serves, it is only upside down during the winter anyway!' This has worked a little, I don't think mom has said this for some time, atleast in my presence.
A few months ago, while at a campout for my mom's birthday, my uncle took me aside and mentioned that, 'since you are the oldest, it now falls to you to be an example to the rest of the kids'. I was a little floored, and had no come back ready, but thought, ok, I am 57 years old, you uncle spent time in jail for attempted child abuse, your own kids have spent real time in jail for drugs, it seems a little out there to think that my once every 4 years family gathering is going to make any difference, with me as an 'example'. His oldest recently spent time in jail for drug sales, and slept in the bed next to mine, praying every night hopping that his up coming hearing goes ok, and to get his kids back.
I don't know how to help them, I have never been a user, I try to keep my life in order as I can, and don't generally need prayer. On our way home, riding with mom and an aunt, I mention, 'I don't really know how to relate to much of the family now, we have so badly diverged from each other'. I love them and let them go...;p(
Homosexuality isn't a moral matter, because you are either biologically attracted to a member of your own gender or your are not. It isn't a choice. A straight person isn't straight due to morality, the person simply isn't gay. By contrast, choosing whether to steal, cheat, or use intimidation to get your way are normal temptations that we all have. We choose not to do these things due to morality. However, religion only ask gay people to make a choice about their sexual preference. That is an immoral double standard. A homosexual act could only be called perverse if it went against a person's nature. For example, a straight person performed a homosexual act due to something other than his natural desires. So, if that's true, wouldn't also be true that asking a gay person to go against his nature and perform "straight" sex, be as equally perverse?
Very nicely put Eric, and by the way, welcome to TA :)
But you aren't attracted to your hand.
I'm just saying that the feeling of attraction is quite different than the feeling of stimulation. It's the feeling you get when she smiles, when she flips her hair, when she does anything else she does that drives you up the wall. You can't just feel that with someone of the same sex simply because that person of the same sex could potentially 'stimulate' you the same way your hand can.
I'm not just attracted to my hand...I'm attached to it. :D
If you use a sharpie, you could draw a happy little face on your hand, you know, kind of personalise it.... maybe occasionally some flowers, a chocolate or two....
Homosexuality isn't a moral matter, because you are either biologically attracted to a member of your own gender or your are not. It isn't a choice.
Actually, I think a pedophile could say the same thing. I'm not sure that argument works.
I see where you're coming from, but children don't have the understanding or sexual maturity to provide consent - not to mention the slough of issues that can develop mentally should the pedophile decide to act on the urges their attraction brings forth. It's not really comparable to being attracted to and being intimate with a consenting adult, same sex or otherwise.