Hey guys!

So my parents (who are Christians) and I just had a huge debate about the supposed "truth" of Christianity, homosexuality and reasons for belief. I'd love to hear some rational opinions about some of the points they made (which I wholeheartedly disagreed with). Feel free to pick any points you'd like to discuss. Here they are:

"When it comes to homosexuals, I don't hate the sinner, I hate the sin. The human body is not designed to have sex with someone of the same sex. That's why God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve."

"The Bible has PREDICTED the fall of Israel, it has also predicted an event in which the sky went black and there was fire, but no scientists had an explanation for what happened."

"There have been people diagnosed with incurable cancer and the doctors had no idea what it was but the person prayed and they were cured."

"Evolution doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make sense how there was one organism, an amoeba or whatever, that just divides and evolves into different species. And where did that come from? There has to be a creator."   <---This is one where I brought up circular reasoning. Also, can someone provide some good sources for abiogenesis for me? I admit I had a hard time explaining this one (and they simply don't understand the process to begin with).

"I've read bits about other religions, Islam, Shintoism etc and they just don't make sense to me the way the Bible does."

"The Bible does not condone slavery or rape or any of those things. When people read that stuff they read it out of context, but when you read the rest of the chapter it actually makes sense."

"People always ask 'Why did God create Cancer?' - well God didn't create cancer, cancer is just something that's part of man's existence. But either way he allows it so that people can learn to be closer to God. People always bring that up when it comes to suffering kids, but God has a reason why he does certain things."

"People are all born into sin. Babies are a product of their sinful parents so it's up to them to repent when they become familiar with the word of God."

"What people need to understand is that not everything in the Bible is supposed to be taken literally. A lot of it is figurative."

"Sure there are people from all different religions, but the Bible says that they'll all be introduced to the word of God and it will be up to them to decide whether they follow Jesus or not, but only those who follow Jesus will be saved."

"People come across tough times in their lives, particularly when they're not aligned with the word of God, but then they realize that as soon as they start to read the Bible and live by God that things start to look up. That's no coincidence."

"God sent his own son down to wash away the sins of man. Man has a choice to be sinful, God gives them free will. There's a set of laws that God sets out for people to follow and if they don't, there are consequences."

"What I know is that the disciples who spoke to God were the ones who wrote the Bible, actually, Moses was one of the only people who was PROVEN to have seen God, but their word is good enough for me. "

(---____---')

Tags: Adam, Bible, Christian, Christianity, Deuteronomy, Eve, Exodus, God, Rape, Slavery, More…debate, knowledge

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"If some parts of the Bible are figurative and other parts literal, then how do I tell the difference.  How does anyone tell the difference. "

THIS.

The answer I got from that question was "it's all up for interpretation, that's why there's so many denominations...but I'm pretty sure the JWs and Mormons are wrong." FACEPALM x 10000000000000

Abiogenesis is actually not yet understood by science, though progress is being made.  They cannot, for instance yet thoroughly explain how it could have happened, and there are multiple competing undetailed guesses as to what happened--filling in the details either validates or (if it turns out differently) invalidates it.  (The "RNA world" mentioned by a previous reply is one of the ones looking good at the moment).  I expect they'll have a solid scenario in place in the next 30 years, but proving it is the way it actually happened might be more difficult.

Yeah the RNA explanation seemed like the better path for the time being. Still doesn't seem to stop the inevitable circular argument of "so where did THAT come from? and where did THAT come from? therefore God." 30 years is way too long to endure any more of this "God created everything" nonsense lol.

"Man has a choice to be sinful, God gives them free will. There's a set of laws that God sets out for people to follow and if they don't, there are consequences."

Those two sentences are diametrically opposed to each other - the first sentence promises free will, while the second says, "Follow my laws or you'll be sorry!" How is that free will? Real free will implies there are no punishments for whichever path you choose in life.

"What I know is that the disciples who spoke to God were the ones who wrote the Bible, actually, Moses was one of the only people who was PROVEN to have seen God, but their word is good enough for me."

Which disciples would that be, who "wrote the Bible"? If the reference is to the disciples of Yeshua (Jesus), they weren't alive when most of the Bible was written. If you mean, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, not only were two of those four, Mark and Luke, not disciples, all four Gospels were written anonymously, and only a hundred or so years later were the names assigned to them - the real Matthew, Mark, Luke and John - if they ever existed - didn't write any part of the Bible.

"What people need to understand is that not everything in the Bible is supposed to be taken literally. A lot of it is figurative."

Please state which parts actually happened and which did not. Once you've done that, we can take a black marker and delete the parts that did not happen and see what we have left.

"The Bible has PREDICTED the fall of Israel, it has also predicted an event in which the sky went black and there was fire, but no scientists had an explanation for what happened."

Many of the parts of the Bible that predicted the fall of Israel were written after the fall of Israel - I predict John Kennedy will be assassinated in 1962 - now let's sit back and see if that comes true. Further, Israel had been ruled by the Egyptians, the Assyrians, the Greeks, the Romans - predicting Israel would be conquered was like throwing a rock at the ocean and predicting you'll hit water. As for the latter - you'd need to show me book, chapter and verse, but it sounds like a total eclipse of the sun, with the sun's corona glowing outside the silhouette of the moon.

"There have been people diagnosed with incurable cancer and the doctors had no idea what it was but the person prayed and they were cured."

"People come across tough times in their lives, particularly when they're not aligned with the word of God, but then they realize that as soon as they start to read the Bible and live by God that things start to look up. That's no coincidence."

Show me verifiable proof.

"actually, Moses was one of the only people who was PROVEN to have seen God"

How can that be, when other than the Bible, there's no evidence that Moses ever existed? He isn't mentioned anywhere in Egyptian records, and those guys were meticulous record-keepers. That many people, living in the Sinai desert for 40 years would have left traces around oases, none exist. King David, in 1000 BCE, was the first person mentioned in the Bible for whom there is actual, historical evidence - all of the characters who peopled the Bible from Adam up to David could well be entirely fictitious, as far as evidence of their existence is concerned. Even the King David story is about 20% fact and 80% fiction - according to biblical archaeologists Finklestein and Silberman, and others, David's Kingdom likely consisted of a hamlet roughly three city-blocks square.

I was excited to see your take on the discussion. I pretty much brought up everything you did, just to have it denied so *shrugs*. They're the ones who try to use the Bible to prove the Bible. 'Nuff said.

Awesome series of videos! Thanks for sharing the link.

How a rational mind could look upon a newborn infant and think that this lovely little creature is guilty of a default sinful condition is beyond me. It is a perverse observation that only religion could inculcate.

I completely agree.

You cannot reason with those who cannot reason.
Look at some previous posts here that address these issues, as well as The Rejection of Pascal's Wager website, the Secular Web website, and the Why Won't God Heal Amputees website (for starters).

Will do, thanks!

Dammit I forgot to bring this point up! They probably would dance in circles or just not understand the importance of that trait. 

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