How to reply to this message?
Ok so I got this forward to me from an idiot the other day, some of you have probably seen it and I haven't decided on how to reply to it yet, any ideas?
This is one of the best explanations of why God allows pain and suffering that I have seen.
A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed. As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation. They talked about so many things and various subjects. When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said: 'I don't believe that God exists.'
'Why do you say that?' asked the customer. 'Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children?
If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain! I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things.' The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument. The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.
Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber: 'You know what? Barbers do not exist.' 'How can you say that?' asked the surprised barber. 'I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!' 'No!' the customer exclaimed. 'Barbers don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside.'
'Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me.' 'Exactly!' affirmed the customer. 'That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world.'
If you think God exists, send this to other people---
If you think God does not exist, delete it!
This is one of the best explanations of why God allows pain and suffering that I have seen.
A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed. As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation. They talked about so many things and various subjects. When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said: 'I don't believe that God exists.'
'Why do you say that?' asked the customer. 'Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children?
If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain! I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things.' The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument. The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.
Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber: 'You know what? Barbers do not exist.' 'How can you say that?' asked the surprised barber. 'I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!' 'No!' the customer exclaimed. 'Barbers don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside.'
'Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me.' 'Exactly!' affirmed the customer. 'That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world.'
If you think God exists, send this to other people---
If you think God does not exist, delete it!
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Nelson on -
you'll find no shortage of members willing to help you produce a cogent reply but you'll have to provide us with the message first. :)
-
Permalink Reply by Vince James Abernathy on -
Sorry, my copy and paste doesn't seem to work for some reason.
-
Permalink Reply by Nelson on
-
no problem. :)
as for the message itself, it's pretty lame really.
it attempts to absolve god of the blame for suffering by pawning it off on humans as a consequence of their not coming to god. but we have only to look around us to find people have indeed come to god and yet still suffer.
but more damaging in an overarching sense is the fact that people's choice of whether or not to come to god is made with god's full foreknowledge of what they will choose. as such, it amounts to predestination as whether or not each person will come to god is fully known to god as he imbues that person with a soul at their conception. and if, in knowing that this will bring about suffering, god doesn't create people otherwise such that they don't fail to come to him then god doesn't seem to be ultimately interested in a world without suffering.
and no doubt a person may respond to claim that god has given us free-will and so our choice of whether to come to him is our own. but unclear is why god couldn't have created us such that we freely choose to come to him.
-
Permalink Reply by Reggie on -
Yeah, it is like people going to the barber and coming out with their hair the exact same length and no hair clippings upon them, but claiming that they got their haircut and isn't it amazing?
A haircut is demonstrable and can be objectively verified.
God is, for most people, not objectively demonstrable and believers rely on subjective evidence and feelings.
The analogy is flawed for so many reasons, but that is what these stories are designed to do. They present a nice narrative that drives home a point while disguising flaws in the internal logic of it all. It is a staple of conservative chain emails on everything from religion to politics.
-
Permalink Reply by John Voss on -
Hmmm... I find the story and the analogy quite ridiculous, but typical. Christianists are notorious for incorrectly using inductive reasoning to prove their god exists. It's like the watchmaker analogy when they say if they found a watch on the beach they can correctly induce that a watchmaker made it, so if they find an orderly universe, they can correctly say that a god created the orderly universe. They take a simple proveable cause and effect and try to extend it, failing to acknowledge that no one has ever seen a god create a universe, like we have a watchmaker make a watch. To say there are no barbers because people have long hair and equate that to saying there is no god because evil exists are so far from one another. If only evil was as easy to correct as long hair.... Having once been a christian, I went to the barber, he just didn't want to cut my hair I guess. Maybe it was a busy day. Makes my stomach hurt.
-
Permalink Reply by John Voss on
-
But truth be told, in my humble opinion, I guess you asked how to reply to it. I wouldn't. They love when they feel they can engage you. But I don't tend to argue with them. It's like arguing black is blue with a retard.
-
Permalink Reply by Vince James Abernathy on
-
Well my best reply to this message would be: " So I guess this means that Jesus was an Atheist?
-
Permalink Reply by Rodrica Davis on -
lmao.
-
Permalink Reply by Doug Reardon on -
As instructed; just delete it.
-
Permalink Reply by Atheist Exile on -
Many atheists are ex-believers who have earnestly petitioned God for help.
The deafening silence we got in return is often what prompted us toward atheism.
-
Permalink Reply by Joli on -
I agree with this so much, not that my life has been Horrid or anything, but it was the little stuff for me, like asking for help on quitting smoking (because it was a sin), or asking for help losing weight (becuse gluttony was a sin) Of course in reality, I knew I had help to do those things (because god helps those who help themselves), but you see where I was going with that. and like Jason (below) Note: god does not exist lol
To answer the question above, No reply needed.
-
Permalink Reply by Jason on -
This is simple. The barbers’ (atheist) argument is somewhat weak in the first place. His reason’s for disbelief is no reason for disbelief in the first place. He is immediately equating the existence of God with that of a loving God. The customer never said in order for a God to exist it must be a loving God. Abandon children, sick people, and pain/suffering could be evidence for the argument of weather God is loving or not, but it has no relevance as to weather a God exist or not. Weather God loves you or not should not be used as the principle argument in deciding if he exist. He could exist and is just a total asshole. – note God does not exist.
What's new today
Forum
Does every living animal have a consciousness?
Started by Holo Gram in Neuroscience, Cognitive Science, Psychology 5 minutes ago. 0 Replies 0 Likes
Blog Posts
Why Respect Relgion - A Post From FB.
Posted by Robert Karp on May 21, 2013 at 10:34am 3 Comments 1 Like
Events
Services we love
Check out our new mobile/tablet version of Think Atheist! www.ThinkAtheist.com/m
© 2013 Created by Morgan Matthew.
