How to debunk: "The universe itself is my proof... it wouldn't be here without God"

All I can think of is:

"Its an argument from ignorance"

"Give me one logical reason why the universe needed a creator to exist?"

How would you debunk this argument?

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Just ask questions that go above any christians heads.  like why would god create quantum non locality? (I like to mess with their heads and through in feminine pronouns while describing "the creator")  So why would she allow a patriarchal society for thousands of years?  why do we have such a limited ability of sight? Sound?   Why would god create a speed limit in the universe.  Why would the universe be older than the bible says? you know stuff that angers them and frazzles there puny little unevolved lower ape brains.  Maybe mention how they have puny unevolved lower ape brains

Lmao! Yes, and then perhaps offer them a banana for their *troubles*, lol! ;-)

What do you think was god's motivation in creating a universe in which we, supposedly made in his image, cannot survive apart from on this planet (so far) which is 2/3rds water in which we cannot survive. Why would he have created so many animals of which he knew, being omnipotent, 99% would not survive? Why did he allow an asteroid to hit earth? What are all thedroughts, famine, floods, natural disaster, killer viruses, disease etc all about? Most people think God loves people - for you to suggest that he made the universe the way he did on purpose suggests he is, at best, indifferent to humanity, at worst malicious? What religion is that exactly?

Surely you know the stock, catch-all non-answer to that Helen, "The Lord works in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform --":)) laughing

pax vobiscum,

*head explodes in frustration*

You are, of course, correct.

Hello archaeopteryx. Yes your good point here belies an observation of how Abrahamic apologetics has morphed to strongly depend upon Presuppositionalism. Since all the classic arguments for a Platonic Supreme Being have been shown false or inconclusive, they must then assume the sale by making claims that naturalism cannot account for some aspect of human cognition. Logic, induction, morality, scientific reasoning being the usual suspects. 

Robert - RE: their assumption that "naturalism cannot account for some aspect of human cognition" - yet they somehow contend that Super-naturalism does --

pax vobiscum,

Well put! I just felt the need to interject something that I think many "Christians" don't get, but I think it's one of the reasons so many of them are angry right-wing tools that want to just take things and rights from others- that "God is love" thing.... Because its based on a false premise, I think it's what causes a lot of their anger/violent rage.
You know, James Dobson (that Focus On The Family freak), who is a child psychologist (lmfao!), wrote a couple of books in the '70's. One of them was called, "Bringing Up Boys". in it he stated that when you punish your child, you MUST hit them with a personal item (his mother hit him with her girdle) until they truly cry... At that point, he said, you should take them into your arms and tell them how much you love them (sets the stage to confuse love and pain).. Kind of the same "God(parent) is love" (except when it's not) platitude. So, when you have an entire society where many of its residents believe in this ideology of "God loves you", but at the SAME time, if you do anything He really doesn't like, you will go to Hell, it seems to me that it sets the stage for ALL types of violent acts(think of all the serial killers- now research any of them, and I'll guarantee that there is religious psychosis in most of them at some level- I don't mean that as a blanket statement, but I think it's true for most of them) (the entire premise of religiousiosity is to "deny what comes naturally", like putting a pressure cooker on a stove and never relieving the pressure)
So, that idea alone, in my opinion, negates the "God is love" BS they try to convince themselves of.
I think Anton LaVay was right on when he would say that *if* God were real, he would, more than likely be the "Satan" figure in the Big Story, not the *nice* benevolent being in white in the sky, lol!

Interesting. I just wrote a blog on the link between christianity and mental illness but did not consider the whole love and violence thing. Hmm?

Yes, I have to say that I've had kind of renewed interest in Psychology, Science, and Political Science. If you are interested, there is a fantastic book that delves into this; it's called "Republican Gomorrah", by Max Blumenthal. It's where I found some validation of something I had already been thinking about. I highly recommend this book; it's a page turner! Really!

Thanks - will have  a look. :)

It's so funny you guys spend so much time trying to convince yourselves that God doesn't exist... I've never heard of anyone spending so much time and effort to debunk something.


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