A friend of mine is a pretty die-hard Christian (shock horror, both of his parents are missionaries/vicars) and he often posts little sayings of some kind or another on Facebook, which I usually ignore. However, today he posted something that really irritated me for some reason:
"The more I look at science, the more in awe of God I become."
And just to make that worse, one of his Christian friends commented "Boom" as if he had made some kind of infallible argument. Somehow, I feel as though nothing I say will make any difference because they must be incredibly deluded already to believe that God just "invented" science. Basically, this is the guy who thinks he's a "modern and intelligent" Christian by saying that things like Noah's Ark are "just stories and aren't meant to be taken seriously by Christians". But if that is true, then why take ANY of the Bible seriously and where does he draw the line between stories and (what he believes is) the truth?
In the past I asked him and his friend where the evidence was. He claimed science (yes, seriously) helped prove Christianity and that Christianity was about "opening yourself" to it and believing, and then you "feel God" or whatever. How do you argue with someone like that??
What do you all say to religious people (not necessarily just Christians) who claim that science is just an invention of God? Is there a specific way to argue with someone who twists everything to awkwardly suit modern day thinking?
Scary creepy cultist talk. I hope he has no children. Growing up with such a person would be child abuse.
I suggest going Occam's Razor on them. This is the idea that the less elaborate the explanation the better. It means that looking at the facts and the explanations or theories, adding "and God did/made it" is an unjustifiable addition.
However, don't lose sleep over it. Theists can't be too logical or they'd have to give up their belief, and keeping their belief is more important to them than anything else.
If they become atheists, they will most likely do that on their own without your help. Until then, you are just a prop in their little drama allowing them to prove that they aren't swayed by reason and logic.
Very funny Richard! I really don't believe that anyone could possibly be so blind and unintelligent so I can only assume you are taking the mickey.
It's not helpful.
Have you found absolute truth?
What do you mean by that? Where in the scientific method is absolute anything found? Can you quote a single qualified scientist who has ever claimed absolute truth about anything?
If so please share.
inside of your worldview certainly...
You dont deal in absolutes so you understand what I mean by a measure of belief right? You do not call it belief but thats what it is. it comes from a fundamentally wrong definition of belief. Very little belief is blind but is informed off of previous events, experiences, and truths that can be observed.
It was assumptions based off your statements. I apologize if it came off obnoxious and if I was wrong, I often am.
I feel that conversing with people that do not agree with me is terribly important and try to do so often.
those are definitionally beliefs though. You try and set them apart by saying one is faith and the other is predictions but definitionally they would be the same thing right?
I use him a lot but trofim lysenko had predictions regarding his rejection of mendellian genetics that were just wrong. That would fall into what you consider faith i assume because it was based on faulty evidence. regardless it was still a belief based on evidence, just wrong evidence.
belief is the same, what differs is what is used to justify those beliefs.
I do understand what you are saying though. I just disagree to an extent with your limited definitions of faith and belief. Maybe I'm just to "loose " with it though eh?
RE: "How do you know if I drop a ball it will fall? Everything takes a measure of belief even your reasoning."
Not at all, Josh - the simple formula, N+1, actually predicts that it is at least possible that at some point, the ball won't fall down, but will fall in some other of the 359 different directions instead. While we assume the ball will fall down, based upon what we know about the laws of gravity and upon simple, practical experience, those of us who understand N+1 never really believe it will, we always wait and see, and I'll admit it, I'm always astonished when it does --!