A friend of mine is a pretty die-hard Christian (shock horror, both of his parents are missionaries/vicars) and he often posts little sayings of some kind or another on Facebook, which I usually ignore. However, today he posted something that really irritated me for some reason:
"The more I look at science, the more in awe of God I become."
And just to make that worse, one of his Christian friends commented "Boom" as if he had made some kind of infallible argument. Somehow, I feel as though nothing I say will make any difference because they must be incredibly deluded already to believe that God just "invented" science. Basically, this is the guy who thinks he's a "modern and intelligent" Christian by saying that things like Noah's Ark are "just stories and aren't meant to be taken seriously by Christians". But if that is true, then why take ANY of the Bible seriously and where does he draw the line between stories and (what he believes is) the truth?
In the past I asked him and his friend where the evidence was. He claimed science (yes, seriously) helped prove Christianity and that Christianity was about "opening yourself" to it and believing, and then you "feel God" or whatever. How do you argue with someone like that??
What do you all say to religious people (not necessarily just Christians) who claim that science is just an invention of God? Is there a specific way to argue with someone who twists everything to awkwardly suit modern day thinking?
you are missing the point.
How can you trust your mind to perform those functions and come to that conclusion?
You have to believe in yourself and that the natural world is intelligible.
Certainly not the foundation of your structure but everything takes a measure of belief.
Much of the natural world is totally unintelligible, Josh, as well as counter intuitive - I give you the entire realm of quantum dynamics, that created the universe, as a prime example.
In the absence of other forces other than the earth's gravity, I would have an extream state of confidence that 'the ball' would fall. We are talking in the 'abstract' here though.
If you intrude another force into the experiment, such as a much larger massive body in orbit around the earth directly above the experiment site, one could obtain a predictable and theoretically computable other force that would accelerate the ball up, or in reference to the other body, 'down' in that gravity/acceleration gradient.
Sadly, for theists, that have rather limited physics experience, this might seem to be magical, and one more 'proof' of 'God's/god's' existence.
With ignorance comes a grasping at straws, and the over use of pat answers. For me It would take a fews days to remember how to use the equations for the prediction....LOL
Since I'm a theist I can't appreciate science?
Nope. It's like a blind person looking at a beautiful painting. If you did appreciate science you wouldn't be a theist. But what a theist does perfectly is cherry pick the science they like. E.g. using modern medicine instead of bleeding yourself with leeches, but then denying evolution and believing in magic (creationism).
So what you're saying, Joshua, is that you believe in both, science and magic. And you don't see a dichotomy there?
Or are you saying that the two are completely compatible? Can you give me an example of how science explains wooden staffs morphing into snakes? Or how a dead man can come back to life?
Upon what do you base your theism, the Bible, which is rampant with errors and plagiarized stories from other, older religions?
I see from your bio that you're from Waxahachie, Texas, the heart of the Bible Belt - most people call reading the Bible, "Bible Study," but I contend that real Bible Study involves researching where the Bible came from, who wrote it, who is said to have written it, yet didn't, and what the circumstances were, under which it was written. I would suspect you've never scratched that surface, but simply believed everything you've been told.
what older religions? what stories?
I'm glad you know me so well.
I do appreciate science and I am a theist. I'm not the only one. History is full of people like me.
How do you account for that?
Science has made so many advancements, Joshua. History was full of questions that seemed to the less knowledgeable humans of those times to be miraculous, and thus they were stuck in the rut of believing in the supernatural. We are so fortunate to live in these times of delightful discovery! It is truly a privilege to understand that we come from stardust, and we can explore vast areas of the universe using our modern technology.
The universe is simply amazing - and science just keeps self-correcting, and self-adjusting to enable us to keep pace with every new discovery.
I feel sad for religion, because it cannot self-adjust, it cannot develop new understandings, and is forever tied to ancient texts and dubious scrolls that were written to try to make sense of the world that surrounded a very primitive people. These people had not developed mentally to the degree that we have now attained. They did not have the information with which to do so. So they called everything they didn't understand, supernatural.
I feel sad for the joys religious people miss out on, and sad that they have to create artificial excuses in order to function in life.
Joshua if your religion gives you comfort, then I'm glad you found something to make you happy, even if it isn't real to me. But you can never squish my mind back into a little box of make-believe, whilst we have the incredible beauty and wildness and delight in being able to understand we are truly free people in a world of incredible scientific revelation and discovery.
“For most of the history of our species we were helpless to understand how nature works.
We took every storm, drought, illness and comet personally.
We created myths and spirits in an attempt to explain the patterns of nature.”
-- Ann Druyan --
"To the scientist the word 'supernatual' is a contradiction.
Everything that is in the universe is natural;
the supernatural is the natural not yet understood.
And that which is called the supernatural is often the figment of a
disordered, undisciplined or undeveloped imagination."
-- Elbert Hubbard --
im not trying to force you to change your mind. I apologize if thats how it was percieved.
Not at all, Joshua, in fact I think you are one of the most polite theists to post on this site. I like the questions you ask, and I like the responses you elicit.
When I said "You can never squish my mind..." I most likely should have said, "I can never squish my mind...". I probably got carried away with the awesomeness of my feeling of freedom in the universe.
i like. but I'll stick with bigfoot on a dragon.