Hello everyone,

A friend of mine is a pretty die-hard Christian (shock horror, both of his parents are missionaries/vicars) and he often posts little sayings of some kind or another on Facebook, which I usually ignore. However, today he posted something that really irritated me for some reason:

"The more I look at science, the more in awe of God I become."


And just to make that worse, one of his Christian friends commented "Boom" as if he had made some kind of infallible argument. Somehow, I feel as though nothing I say will make any difference because they must be incredibly deluded already to believe that God just "invented" science. Basically, this is the guy who thinks he's a "modern and intelligent" Christian by saying that things like Noah's Ark are "just stories and aren't meant to be taken seriously by Christians". But if that is true, then why take ANY of the Bible seriously and where does he draw the line between stories and (what he believes is) the truth?


In the past I asked him and his friend where the evidence was. He claimed science (yes, seriously) helped prove Christianity and that Christianity was about "opening yourself" to it and believing, and then you "feel God" or whatever. How do you argue with someone like that??


What do you all say to religious people (not necessarily just Christians) who claim that science is just an invention of God? Is there a specific way to argue with someone who twists everything to awkwardly suit modern day thinking?

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Natasha Gladwell;

You ask:

Is there a specific way to argue with someone who twists everything to awkwardly suit modern day thinking?

Yes, walk away!  Hanging out with and talking to idiots will retard your mind.  Move on, you got better things to do and better people to do them with.

I think that you would have better luck arguing with a wall, at least the wall won't give you answers that will drive you crazy. His mind has been programmed to resist logic, I'd find someone else to hang around that hasn't made up his mind in concrete that all the logical reasoning in the world won't change and sees no reason to make any changes because the "good" book tells him so, at least the parts that he takes seriously.

Hi Natasha - ask lots of questions.  Make him want to study his own beliefs.  Find out which of his beliefs are a big part of his worldview.  Ask hard questions around these beliefs.   A key Christian belief is that Jesus died in place of sinners and paid for their sin.  This might be a good place to ask questions.   What are the wages of sin?   Is that eternal death, damnation, torment?  How come Christ is not still dead, damned, in eternal torment?  Did he really take your place? 
Cognitive disonance is a natural result of studying one's own delusional beliefs.

What to say to the blissfully ignorant?  As Hilary Clinton recently said; We live in a world where many do not believe in an evidenced based world. The question to ask is simply; Prove it?   Science is provable ... like millions of dinosaur bones and repeated experiments. Religion is simply myth, totally irrational. All the religious can fall back on is faith, believing because they want to. The bible is not history. It is  simply the mythology of a people. If they were brave enough to look into the origins of their faith they would see how the old testament was constructed over a 2000 year period and the new testament over a 300 year period; authors rejecting what did not fit the myth.


^^ see this question?  As a religious person, you must never use it.  Your deity has told you what he wants you to know, and any further use of the question is in defiance of his apparent plan

We who ask it, yes us heathen demon spawn, will continue to do so.  And as we discover new things, perhaps new forms of transport, or medicine, we will allow you to use them, because we care about you, because you are so very like us, except for your fear, your need to have a comfort blanket.

What a weirdo--as if Christians are adverse to inventing and utilizing technology. God blessed humans with the capacity for inquisitivness. I didn't realize this was the domain of atheists alone...my mistake.
Ok, I'll try again, Richard.

This God which you refer to, it's an intriguing concept. Where did you first hear of such a thing? Tell me more of this concept its a novel idea please explain, really. Was the data provided by a reliable source? My parents, who provided information to me about God and Sicilian voodoo, turned out to be wrong about a lot of things. Wrong more often than they were right in hindsight. They are nice loving people though.

So anyway, was this source data peer reviewed? Were the results reproduced by anyone? Anyway, you're off to a great start with this hypothesis. I'd love to see some more data on it. Please provide.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world Gods invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. I guess you just don't see it. Ok, now mock me, I quoted the Bible...

I don't care how majestic and beautiful something is, it is not proof of a god and neither are words in a book written by men from long ago.

He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. (Qur’an 3:3)

It is clear that Islam is the true religion so you are without excuse. I guess you just don't see it.

I am not going to mock you. I am going to give you a comparative example. Here is another explanation for the universe from a different literary source. Please differentiate how my evidence written by humans to explain the origin of the universe is different from your bible evidence written by humans to explain the origin of the universe.

The supreme deity is called Eru Ilúvatar. In the beginning, Ilúvatar created spirits named the Ainur and he taught them to make music. After the Ainur had become proficient in their skills, Ilúvatar commanded them to make a great music based on a theme of his own design. The most powerful Morgoth or "Dark Enemy" disrupted the theme, and in response Ilúvatar introduced new themes that enhanced the music beyond the comprehension of the Ainur. The movements of their song laid the seeds of much of the history of the as yet unmade universe and the people who were to dwell therein.

Then Ilúvatar stopped the music and he revealed its meaning to the Ainur through a Vision. Moved by the Vision, many of the Ainur felt a compelling urge to experience its events directly. Ilúvatar therefore created Eä, the universe itself, and some of the Ainur went down into the universe to share in its experience. But upon arriving in Eä, the Ainur found it was shapeless because they had entered at the beginning of Time. The Ainur undertook great labours in these unnamed "ages of the stars", in which they shaped the universe and filled it with many things far beyond the reach of Men. In time, however, the Ainur formed Arda, the abiding place of the Children of Ilúvatar, Elves and Men. The fifteen most powerful Ainur are called the Valar, of whom Melkor was the most powerful, but Manwë was the leader. The Valar settled in Arda to watch over it and help prepare it for the awakening of the Children.

Not a problem, Richard - around here, we often quote the Bible, especially the part in Isiah where your god admits he creates evil.

RE: "His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." - translated, I read that to mean that Paul didn't know how nature worked, so he assumed that his god did it. We see that fallacy a lot among theists..


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