A friend of mine is a pretty die-hard Christian (shock horror, both of his parents are missionaries/vicars) and he often posts little sayings of some kind or another on Facebook, which I usually ignore. However, today he posted something that really irritated me for some reason:
"The more I look at science, the more in awe of God I become."
And just to make that worse, one of his Christian friends commented "Boom" as if he had made some kind of infallible argument. Somehow, I feel as though nothing I say will make any difference because they must be incredibly deluded already to believe that God just "invented" science. Basically, this is the guy who thinks he's a "modern and intelligent" Christian by saying that things like Noah's Ark are "just stories and aren't meant to be taken seriously by Christians". But if that is true, then why take ANY of the Bible seriously and where does he draw the line between stories and (what he believes is) the truth?
In the past I asked him and his friend where the evidence was. He claimed science (yes, seriously) helped prove Christianity and that Christianity was about "opening yourself" to it and believing, and then you "feel God" or whatever. How do you argue with someone like that??
What do you all say to religious people (not necessarily just Christians) who claim that science is just an invention of God? Is there a specific way to argue with someone who twists everything to awkwardly suit modern day thinking?
Texas just can't catch a break first Baby Bush and now Rick ("Oops!") Perry. :D
I do appreciate science and I am a theist. I'm not the only one. History is full of people like me.
How do you account for that?
One word: Ignorance.
The way that you seem to believe is through the 'god of the gaps' theory. Through all that science shows to you, you point and say, 'yes that's true, but god did it'. Then when it's shown that god wasn't the step before you rinse and repeat. First god created man from nothing, then it was discovered that it was actually through evolution that we came into being. You may reluctantly accept this and then say 'but where did the earth come from?' to which we learn its the big bang. You then retreat to say 'but where did the big bang come from?' Once the answer to that question is solved, just like all the others have been, what will the question become? As soon as you find a gap in the knowledge of science it becomes 'goddidit'. The gaps are slowly growing smaller and smaller leaving less and less room for a 'god'.
If you accept science and appreciate it while still being a theist then this is the only logical way I can see it working out in your head. What will happen when you cannot say 'goddidit' because we have knowledge that answers all your questions without the need of a god?
People like you are scattered through history because their knowledge wasn't nearly as wide and freely available as what it is now, they did not know about evolution, nor any other of the scientific discoveries that we have found make the universe work perfectly fine without the need for a 'goddidit'.
Is there a specific way to argue with someone who twists everything to awkwardly suit modern day thinking?
Yes, walk away! Hanging out with and talking to idiots will retard your mind. Move on, you got better things to do and better people to do them with.
I think that you would have better luck arguing with a wall, at least the wall won't give you answers that will drive you crazy. His mind has been programmed to resist logic, I'd find someone else to hang around that hasn't made up his mind in concrete that all the logical reasoning in the world won't change and sees no reason to make any changes because the "good" book tells him so, at least the parts that he takes seriously.
Hi Natasha - ask lots of questions. Make him want to study his own beliefs. Find out which of his beliefs are a big part of his worldview. Ask hard questions around these beliefs. A key Christian belief is that Jesus died in place of sinners and paid for their sin. This might be a good place to ask questions. What are the wages of sin? Is that eternal death, damnation, torment? How come Christ is not still dead, damned, in eternal torment? Did he really take your place?
Cognitive disonance is a natural result of studying one's own delusional beliefs.
What to say to the blissfully ignorant? As Hilary Clinton recently said; We live in a world where many do not believe in an evidenced based world. The question to ask is simply; Prove it? Science is provable ... like millions of dinosaur bones and repeated experiments. Religion is simply myth, totally irrational. All the religious can fall back on is faith, believing because they want to. The bible is not history. It is simply the mythology of a people. If they were brave enough to look into the origins of their faith they would see how the old testament was constructed over a 2000 year period and the new testament over a 300 year period; authors rejecting what did not fit the myth.
^^ see this question? As a religious person, you must never use it. Your deity has told you what he wants you to know, and any further use of the question is in defiance of his apparent plan
We who ask it, yes us heathen demon spawn, will continue to do so. And as we discover new things, perhaps new forms of transport, or medicine, we will allow you to use them, because we care about you, because you are so very like us, except for your fear, your need to have a comfort blanket.
I don't care how majestic and beautiful something is, it is not proof of a god and neither are words in a book written by men from long ago.
He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. (Qur’an 3:3)
It is clear that Islam is the true religion so you are without excuse. I guess you just don't see it.