A friend of mine is a pretty die-hard Christian (shock horror, both of his parents are missionaries/vicars) and he often posts little sayings of some kind or another on Facebook, which I usually ignore. However, today he posted something that really irritated me for some reason:
"The more I look at science, the more in awe of God I become."
And just to make that worse, one of his Christian friends commented "Boom" as if he had made some kind of infallible argument. Somehow, I feel as though nothing I say will make any difference because they must be incredibly deluded already to believe that God just "invented" science. Basically, this is the guy who thinks he's a "modern and intelligent" Christian by saying that things like Noah's Ark are "just stories and aren't meant to be taken seriously by Christians". But if that is true, then why take ANY of the Bible seriously and where does he draw the line between stories and (what he believes is) the truth?
In the past I asked him and his friend where the evidence was. He claimed science (yes, seriously) helped prove Christianity and that Christianity was about "opening yourself" to it and believing, and then you "feel God" or whatever. How do you argue with someone like that??
What do you all say to religious people (not necessarily just Christians) who claim that science is just an invention of God? Is there a specific way to argue with someone who twists everything to awkwardly suit modern day thinking?
"Insanity is believing your hallucinations are real.
Religion is believing that other peoples' hallucinations are real."
-- Dan Barker --
Perhaps instead of focusing this troubling level of attention on your friend's "delusion" you should be turning that examination around and evaluating why you feel compelled to argue this point with her.
The answers to your reply are in Natasha's original post.
The friend is equating science with evidence for an unevidenced being. Science is a discipline of submitting theories based on fact; proving/disproving those facts by experimentation. The friend's position is incongruous at best; absurd and even self-contradictory. Describing this as "delusion" is accurate.
She has pointed out that her comments were only in the past, but that she feels uncomfortable with the incongruity of clearly ludicrous statements. Although, as an atheist, it doesn't make much sense to preach one's lack of belief in religious fictions, accepting without comment, ridiculous assertions and falsities is not human.
I'm sure we've all been in town centres with the preacher stood up spouting his/her particular views about the christian god and some bloke called Jesus. The one in my town does it specifically where young people tend to congregate around benches to eat lunch and chat. This is dangerous. Young people are getting bombarded by lies. Now I'm sure most won't suddenly convert from a child's natural atheism but some may.
Personally, I don't see much point in confronting someone's personal beliefs. If someone chooses to believe in ghosts, pixies, faeries or gods, that's their choice. On the other hand, when someone starts to push those narcotic ideas on others, and most particularly children, it does need to be confronted.
Perhaps the christian friend should consider why it is necessary to peddle their ideas on an a-religious social networking site.
...and I think most people can sympathise with the irritation, especially with the "down with the kids" response of "BOOM", by a second christian...I'd be growling like a dog having its bone stolen.
Natasha - you agreed earlier that you would get him to divulge his beliefs, then bring them to us - that was nearly two months ago. Did I miss that post?
Here's an idea that might work for you Natasha - he's already told you what he doesn't believe (the OT fantasies) - remind him of that, then ask what he DOES believe. Whatever he says, copy and paste his comments into a text program and bring them to us, maybe we will have ways of refuting his arguments that possibly you haven't thought of.
Good idea. If I see him any time soon I will definitely do that, thanks!
The best way I have found, is to use the Bible AGAINST the Bible. Literally using the Bible against itself is the best way to argue against Christianity. It is how I have converted many students away from the religion. When I produce logical arguments against what is written and illustrate how contradictory and illogical it is, many have "seen the light" so to speak, and turned away.
Many arguments that I have used can be found here:https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/270873It also illustrates the consequences to all of us who live in Christian based societies.
Excellent strategy. Another good resource is the Skeptic's Annotated Bible.
What your friend said doesn't make sense at all to me! I mean not to be rude but your friend sounds like a crazed nut job.
I always like to point out that everyone was born an atheist. That most religious people believe whatever they believe because of their circle of friends and family. Then I like to ask them ...
"Ok ...you believe in God but you were born an atheist ... What made you decide to believe in God?"
Make them narrow it down to the moment they decided. Most cannot and its easy to point out the brainwashing and propaganda from family & friends.
Another good one: If there is a God ... then why did he make me an Athiest? lol
Or this one ... If there is a God, then he knows exactly what it would take for me to believe in him. So its his fault not mine that I dont believe.
And of course the classic: Religion is not real because it requires faith. Faith, by its very nature is the opposite of real. If it was real, then there would be no need for faith.
To ""The more I look at science, the more in awe of God I become."
I would say I'm glad your looking at science perhaps try looking INTO it as well, it has some credible theories on who created God!
Arn't Neuroscience Psychiatry and Biology just the bomb! fascinating stuff ey!
I might even just for a facebook page drop a oneliner like Isn't phrontistery awesome!
I have an Uncle who use to send me mass emails with bible quotes and such, sometimes just racist jokes (thats what I get for living in the south) so I changed my email address and deleted the other account.
I disagree. Facebook, and everywhere else in the virtual cyber social media world is exactly the right place to engage these ideas. The Internet is a vast arena where ideas come to do battle. These primitive, misogynistic, hateful, self-loathing ideas must be countered as often as possible. We must all do what we can to make sure that they don't go unchallenged. Young people need to see that it's OK to speak up, when Grandma says "God Hates Fags" on facebook. Join the War on Ignorance