A friend of mine is a pretty die-hard Christian (shock horror, both of his parents are missionaries/vicars) and he often posts little sayings of some kind or another on Facebook, which I usually ignore. However, today he posted something that really irritated me for some reason:
"The more I look at science, the more in awe of God I become."
And just to make that worse, one of his Christian friends commented "Boom" as if he had made some kind of infallible argument. Somehow, I feel as though nothing I say will make any difference because they must be incredibly deluded already to believe that God just "invented" science. Basically, this is the guy who thinks he's a "modern and intelligent" Christian by saying that things like Noah's Ark are "just stories and aren't meant to be taken seriously by Christians". But if that is true, then why take ANY of the Bible seriously and where does he draw the line between stories and (what he believes is) the truth?
In the past I asked him and his friend where the evidence was. He claimed science (yes, seriously) helped prove Christianity and that Christianity was about "opening yourself" to it and believing, and then you "feel God" or whatever. How do you argue with someone like that??
What do you all say to religious people (not necessarily just Christians) who claim that science is just an invention of God? Is there a specific way to argue with someone who twists everything to awkwardly suit modern day thinking?
well. this is what i'd do. id start posting stuff too. if he can, so can you!
While you are dealing with someone pursuing a higher formal education it must always be remembered that the vast majority of religious people have no interest in the details of their religious belief system. They use god(s) as a necessary crutch for getting through everyday life. They don't want to consider issues of evidence or inconsistency. Their god is their imaginary friend that they call upon as life's events warrant. And most will not be open to scientific scrutiny that dissects their spiritual world and lays it open for discussion.
Basically, Ed, and I agree with you completely, you're saying that when anyone tries to confuse them with the facts, they stick their fingers in their ears and go, "La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La!"
Ed and arch....
I couldn't agree more. But the same is true of some very educated types. It never ceases to amaze me that some very intelligent and educated scientists i know will totally ignore their education and practice voodoo or whatever on a whim. ie: vitamin crazes, latest herbal concoctions or bat dunk in a wound cus bubba said it would help.
It appears there is an inherent part of our brains that not only allows inconsistencies to flourish, it even cultivates them.... This crosses much more than just religious view points.
In a manner of speaking, yes. Most members of this site thrive on reason and logic and rightfully so. But when religious individuals make illogical statements in reference to god(s) they don't think about the possible absence of logic in their comment. For example: the Newtown murders of little tots. Theists will say "God called them up and needed them more than we do." That sounds nice and cozy and all that but upon examination it makes no sense that a benevolent god would require a small child, or anyone for that matter, to experience the horror and pain of a ballistics round penetrating their face. Why would he not opt to just take the child in a little more endearing manner? It's nonsensical but the average theist does not ponder things from a logical perspective. It's sad really.
I asked a religious zealot about the Newtown kids, he said "god works in mysterious ways". It was all I could do not to use my power drill and let some of the pressure out of his head because something is clearly wrong in there.
Make that a titanium bit as some of those heads are extremely hard to penetrate....
Do what Matt (Dillahunty) does; "Yours is an arguement from ignorance and I refuse to participate".
Get him to read the god delusion,
If he was brainwashed from an early age it may not be possible to budge his views, i do not always think that you can teach all old dogs new tricks
Ps just found this this to show him
"Insanity is believing your hallucinations are real.
Religion is believing that other peoples' hallucinations are real."
-- Dan Barker --
Perhaps instead of focusing this troubling level of attention on your friend's "delusion" you should be turning that examination around and evaluating why you feel compelled to argue this point with her.
Natasha - you agreed earlier that you would get him to divulge his beliefs, then bring them to us - that was nearly two months ago. Did I miss that post?
Here's an idea that might work for you Natasha - he's already told you what he doesn't believe (the OT fantasies) - remind him of that, then ask what he DOES believe. Whatever he says, copy and paste his comments into a text program and bring them to us, maybe we will have ways of refuting his arguments that possibly you haven't thought of.
Good idea. If I see him any time soon I will definitely do that, thanks!