Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kim Roder on July 13, 2011 at 10:22pm

I am in no way or shape of form claiming this. read topic properly

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Permalink Reply by Jewelz on July 13, 2011 at 11:01pm

I am mostly against all sorts of organized religions... People always complain about how close minded religion really is and that most of their followers are just blindly pusuing the herd. Though how much "better" is atheism really? Atheism is... a religion itself. Atheism preeches the "We know YOU are wrong" factor.

 

Your entire post wreaks of superiority and lumps atheists and religious fundamentalist theists together just as the comic states. You claim agnosticism but probably do not understand the meaning of the term. It's a common mistake. Most atheists are also agnostic. If you can't name a god you believe in, you are an atheist as well. 

 

Your atheist friends talking about killing theists were just assholes. You will not find atheists like that here. In fact, aside from internet trolls, I've never come across an atheist like that in my 20+ years of open non belief.

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Permalink Reply by Kim Roder on July 14, 2011 at 7:07am

Again read the entire post, I press the opinion i have about atheism several times. I prefer atheism over other religions by far. If you are ignorant to the increasing resemblence that atheism strikes with other religions than you are defending your beliefs like a real riligious person looking only at the one line that may be considered a rampage against your beliefs.

 

In relation to my friends I do not say they are extremist and would ever harm anyone, but the fact that they say this out of irritation suggests that in the not too distant future you might actually find a extremist atheism killing "believers" in the name of science.

 

I agree that momentarily atheism is by far in most logical ways the best option for people to be part of, but in the long run I merely am trying to show that it seems to be "going to the dark side" in many ways

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Permalink Reply by erik112358 on July 14, 2011 at 7:29am

I suppose there are similarities in the growth of atheism to the growth of some religions. And sure, maybe there will be atheist whackjobs in the future - that can happen anywhere, anytime.

But neither of those claims requires nor proves that atheism is a religion. I think our differences boil down to the fact that my experience of violent atheists doesn't match yours. I've personally never met an atheist intent on harming (much less killing) others due to their religious beliefs (so long as they, in turn, do not harm others).

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Permalink Reply by Jewelz on July 14, 2011 at 11:43am

If you are ignorant to the increasing resemblence that atheism strikes with other religions than you are defending your beliefs like a real riligious person looking only at the one line that may be considered a rampage against your beliefs.

 

I see no similarities between atheism and religion other than the fact that they both involve people. It's certainly possible some future emotional atheist extremist (someone who believes in God but calls himself atheist because he thinks God's an asshole) could kill anyone in the name of anything, but I don't see how anyone could brainwash an entire nation of freethinking skeptics into committing atrocities in the name of science. Religion and dogma have that market cornered, and you're not going to get a room full of skeptics to agree on anything.

 

You keep saying "your beliefs" implying atheists all have the same set of beliefs. Have you read ANY of the discussions here? We all have very different perspectives, morals, and lifestyles. Which of those beliefs do you claim I am defending? My lack of belief in unicorns, Santa, and God is not a set of beliefs.

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Permalink Reply by Blondin on July 15, 2011 at 10:22am

I would like to add that if Jewelz hadn't posted that xkcd comic I was going to.

Kim, you are talking hyperbolic nonsense. Atheism is not a basis for any kind of belief system or world view. It is merely one result of thinking clearly and critically about how much credibility to attach to the assertions of others. It is a rejection of ideology. You will never see 'extremist atheism killing "believers" in the name of science' because the vast majority of people who become atheists do so because they value the freedom and protection of individuals over that of any ideology. There is no scientific or atheist dogma. Everything is questionable. Nothing is sacred. Science does not make decrees - people do. Some people may be better or worse than others at applying the scientific method but ultimately science is all about "keeping it real" by gradually, cumulatively, ruthlessly separating that which appears to be true from that which is demonstrably false.

Religions claim to have revealed truth. Religions discourage or forbid questioning or testing of doctrine. Science (and subsequently atheism) is all about judging degrees of certainty about claims and assertions based on evidence. Religions promote belief without regard for what is actually true. Science is a recognition that everything we think may be wrong, but we can asymptotically approach truth by doubting, testing and asking questions.

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Permalink Reply by Alan Katz on July 13, 2011 at 6:29pm

Hey, Kim -- you start out by describing yourself as an agnostic -- usually a reference to the individual's sense that we cannot know with absolute certainty whether a god-creature exists or not. Most atheists don't have that issue.  They have looked at the Universe, have thought about it, thought about where we (the Universe)  started (IF we even started at all), where we are and where we (again,as a Universe) are going -- and concluded that they pretty much DO know -- whatever the mechanism was, is and will be, it dos not involve a god-figure.  No Big Daddy In The Sky. 

 

Further, most atheists (can't speak for them all and I'm somewhat loathe to speak for any of them beyond myself -- it's not my right or place to do so) specifically do not see the world as you think we do.  We haven't become atheists because we think it's better; we have become (or always were) atheists because we think it represents the Truth about the Universe.  Our bottom line is a-theistic:  a=no; theistim=god-belief.  That's it.  Nothing more than that.  Everything else -- you have to talk to the individual.  And that goes to the heart of your concern that atheists are or are becoming dogmatic.  I don't think that's even remotely possible.  Herding cats would be more possible and productive -- specifically because there is no core 'belief' other than the certainty/knowledge that whatever makes the Universe tick, it does not involve a god-creature. 

 

I hope this helps a little...

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Permalink Reply by Kim Roder on July 13, 2011 at 10:32pm

Ofc I tried passing over this idea, I admit I lack experience of expressional writing.

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Permalink Reply by David Fruits on July 13, 2011 at 8:16pm

I've never heard an atheist preacher tell me what I think.

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Permalink Reply by Kelin420 on July 13, 2011 at 10:25pm

I Have Never Had/Heard An Atheist...
...Knock on my door trying to show me the light.
...Shout at me with a bullhorn about the end of times.
...Put science/atheist books in my hotel room (although I wish they would, those books are expensive).
...Tell me I'm going to Hell and the Lake o'fire and all that.
...Ask me if I've been saved (from what? Nutty fanatics?)

There are so many crazy things that atheists don't do in general- I'm sure some atheist somewhere -removed a Giddeon bible and left a Sam Harris book in it's place. But in general so much that this post should be it's own topic

I Have Never Had An Atheist...

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Permalink Reply by Katrin Schwarz on July 13, 2011 at 8:27pm

Your question doesn't make sense as it is stated (in the title).  

Your definition of atheism is incorrect and your indirect assertion that atheism is driving a religion like movement seems to based upon some unstated assumptions which don't correlate with my perception of the issues under discussion.

What you seem to be saying seems not to apply to atheism but rather to a growing unity amongst like minded people and groups who have a common perception that religion is causing harm in society.  

This unity is not confined to atheists nor is it a result of atheist efforts although there are probably a large percentage of atheists involved.  I am inclined toward calling it something like "the anti-religious awakening".  In my opinion the "the anti-religious awakening" began at least several hundred years ago and has been growing in unison with the exponential increase in science based knowledge.

The probable reason that atheists are prominent in this picture is that theists are highly unlikely to perceive religion as a whole as a problem and much more likely to perceive other religions and lack of religion as a problem. (well known rational argument is behind this statement so no source required).

Your assertion "education is in an infinitely worse state" is a statement that requires a rational argument or a source.  As it stands it can be your opinion but we can't understand your motive for believing it, and even if we did, how would it be relevant to the stated question in the heading and the preceding monologue.

Just my opinion - if you disagree then by all means enlighten me and if you assert facts rather than opinions then please provide sources or backing arguments.

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Permalink Reply by Kim Roder on July 13, 2011 at 10:30pm

The reason education converges with my intial question is because I have mostly seen through experience that 99% of extremists are uninformed people.

 

The flaw in education (lack of teachign personel in ammount and quality. Lack of funding for research and development) causes uninformed people in teh issues.

 

The reason i say how much better is athiesm reall? is because atheists tend to be the already more informed part of the species, but they still hold significant ammounts of extremists against any religion with a deity.`

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