Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rob the Ridiculous on June 15, 2012 at 6:01am

Ahum.....  

Jakarta Post wrote about it, and regardless, I do think that it is not an important issue at all what insults where uttered. The fact of the matter is that the guy was prosecuted for not having a belief in God.

As if the sense of hurt that religious people have is an actual offense.

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Permalink Reply by Okinawa R. on June 15, 2012 at 7:05am

He was not prosecuted for not having belief in God, he was prosecuted for insulting which is regulated under a law;

1. Your uncle is gay. 

2. Your uncle is gay, he had sex with the guy next door.

see the difference ? insult is not a fact, fact tho insulting it may be, is still a fact.

And that post @Jakarta Post is not telling the whole story. 

http://www.hajsmy.us/2012/01/mui-pns-ateis-lukai-masyarakat-lengkap... have screenshots of his remarks, if you're capable of translating it..some of his remarks are using regional language which i do not understand, some are pretty straightforward Indonesian.

And let me translate you some of the remarks (taken from http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/535/am04ok.jpg/)

"Its common, most muslims are dumb like a dog, including Fransisca which is a nasrani name"

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/jusfiqok.jpg/

"And in the country where the muslim is the majority religion means the country where a a girl can be f*cked by the husband when she's 9 years old fit the example set by muhammed pig which called "teenage rebirth" is clear to be exist tho not often, if ever matters."

taken and translated as it is...tho his language is badly mixed and quite hard to understand since he's using his own regional-indonesian language,

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Permalink Reply by Rob the Ridiculous on June 15, 2012 at 7:19am

Regardless, a person is convicted because a religion needs to be protected against insults? Seriously, a guy goes to prison because he is angry and hostile towards religion? Did he slander a person, no?

Blasphemy is a victim-less crime, the whole idea that insults against religion are worthy of a legal retribution is just ridiculous. My opinions are not protected by any law, and neither should the opinions of another person. I don't care how insulting something is to another person, grow some skin for f*ck sakes.

If his opinions are insulting, than I would like to argue that the opinions of people that believe that women are subservient to men are insulting to me, so therefor they need to go to prison for 2,5 years as well. (See where this is going to lead us?)

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Permalink Reply by Okinawa R. on June 15, 2012 at 7:55am

So.....regardless what the law said, someone shouldn't be prosecuted for breaking the law ?

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Permalink Reply by Rob the Ridiculous on June 15, 2012 at 8:13am

When a law is stupid, it is stupid.

Just because something is a law, doesn't make it sensible, does it?

Would you think that a law that would sentence all women to death to be sensible? Would you argue that "since it is law, it has to be done?"

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on June 15, 2012 at 9:44am

I've asked this before, but can't seem to get an answer - why do humans have to punish other humans for religious "crimes"? Isn't their god capable of doing his own dirty work? I mean, what's a little lightning bolt for the serious stuff, and for working on the Sabbath, how about a little plague, or a few frogs or locusts?

And for the really REALLY big stuff, liking stewing lamb in its mother's milk, he could go all Sodom and Gomorrah on their ass!

Is he on vacation in Boca, or what?

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Permalink Reply by Pope Beanie on June 15, 2012 at 6:33pm

For God's a jolly good fellllow, for God's a jolly good felllllow....

Permalink Reply by Karen Lollis on June 16, 2012 at 12:48am

Gandhi said it this way: "An unjust law is itself a species of violence. Arrest for its breach is more so."

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Permalink Reply by Okinawa R. on June 17, 2012 at 12:25am

Your argument are based on hatred towards a particular religion, take a rest and think more on it.

this law is approved by the government to handle sparks that currently existed among the public.

This country is not your beloved full of justice country, why dont you come and live here a bit, then perhaps you'll understand.

Oh and i'll remind you that this is not a religious based country and stoning is not permitted.

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Permalink Reply by Brent on June 14, 2012 at 2:02pm

*(This post will contain some generalizations, please don't jump on my back about them)

I live in Seattle where I don't personally experience intolerance, but of course I am aware of the situation for people in other parts of the country.  As it has been less publicly acceptable to discriminate against/openly disparage certain groups (women, LGBT, African Am., Latinos, Mormons, etc)* the Right has a smaller pool of targets. Off the top of my head I would list Arabs/Muslims, 'Illegal Aliens', and Atheists*. Things will probably improve for those first two more quickly than the later. I find it funny/sad that politicians/organizations will talk about improvements in diversity but fail to mention the Atheists.

I think the current attempts by Atheists to be more assertive has some historical parallels with similar experiences with other oppressed groups, most notably the civil rights and gay rights movements.  As those groups became more assertive the level of hostility directed towards them by certain segments grew.*  The same thing may be starting to happen with Atheists.  The question is what will be our Stonewall, our Selma?

There is also much institutionalized intolerance against Atheists that many people may not even recognize or acknowledge.  And when it's pointed out that Atheists are often characterized as complainers.  These would be things like the Pledge of Allegiance, public money to religious institutions, prayer in school, religious symbols in public settings, tax exempt status of churches and the special rights that churches demand with things such as health insurance coverage for contraception, adoption rights.  There are even some places where it is illegal for an Atheist to hold public office.  All of these things show how our public institutions view my beliefs as not being given the same respect as those of the Theist. If any of us bring up these things we are the ones accused of intolerance or mocked as being petty whiners. 

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Permalink Reply by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on June 14, 2012 at 2:16pm

Hi Brad – You might like to look at it from a different angle. It is interesting to have a Christian ask Atheists what we see as intolerance. I am sure you have heard other Christians ask “Why are Atheists so angry at god?” Well we are not because we don’t believe there are any, including your one. But we are angry at the religious bigots of all faiths who use their faith to do evil. We are angry at the apologetics of all faiths who say it is not their faith that is to blame. Will you listen to all of this and take notes? Anger is an Energy.

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Permalink Reply by mick herman on June 15, 2012 at 5:21pm

Anti gay and anti atheist mostly. I, and most over atheists don'y give a damn if we're told we're going to hell, what does annoy me is complete ignorance about atheists, some people seriously think atheists are in a cult where they butcher babies and so on.

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