I've run across ex-atheists at various online sites; not many but a few. I just can't believe they ever were really atheists to begin with. How does somebody go about unembracing reason? It just doesn't add up. I get the feeling that a certain percentage of ex-atheists are actually Christian frauds using pseudonyms to give testimonies of fake reconversions.

What do you think? Can a real atheist really reconvert to Christianity? How?

Tags: ex-atheist, reconversion

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It's not a similarity or difference between tree sprites and gods. It is a fact that as an argument, the principle of credulity could be used for anything. By anything I'm not just saying tree sprites, but it also could be applied to flat earth, geocentricism... Get creative, because you can believe anything if you keep following this logic.

 I just don't think that someone who experiences God needs to be locked up, like someone who experiences a murderous tree sprite does


What is the basis of the distinction between the tree sprites and god, just that to you personally they don't seem to exist? How is that not subjective?

Hello again, IEatDinosaurMeat.

It's not a similarity or difference between tree sprites and gods. It is a fact that as an argument, the principle of credulity could be used for anything. By anything I'm not just saying tree sprites, but it also could be applied to flat earth, geocentricism... Get creative, because you can believe anything if you keep following this logic.

That's false. I can't just believe anything based upon the Principle of Credulity, because it's not the case that just any belief seems true to me. If you think that just any belief could seem true to you, then you have fallen into radical skepticism, but I doubt that you think any such thing.

If we can't employ the Principle of Credulity, then we have nowhere to begin building our structure of knowledge. It's perfectly reasonable to say, at some point, that certain beliefs should be accepted because they seem obviously true and there are no defeaters for them. I'm not sure how else you could do epistemology.

What is the basis of the distinction between the tree sprites and god, just that to you personally they don't seem to exist? How is that not subjective?

Again, I don't think it's reasonable to object to my believing that God is relevantly distinct from a tree sprite because it seems true to me that they are relevantly distinct. At that point, you're essentially criticizing me for having the particular cognitive makeup that I have, which is not something that I can control. I can't help finding belief in tree sprites crazy and belief in God not crazy any more than I can help believing that I am looking at a computer monitor at the moment.

I think if you reflect on the notion of God seriously and carefully, there is a good chance that you'll find yourself in agreement with me that the idea of God is not crazy like the idea of a tree sprite is crazy. Do you really think the idea that something conscious created the universe and sustains it is just obviously absurd? I don't see how you could say that.

That's false. I can't just believe anything based upon the Principle of Credulity, because it's not the case that just any belief seems true to me. If you think that just any belief could seem true to you, then you have fallen into radical skepticism, but I doubt that you think any such thing.

But it can be applied to anything, and while yes, not just any belief seems true to you, you are not the only one perceiving things and what seems true to one person may not seem true to the next. Thus on the individual basis, any belief can be rationalized using this criterion. Remember also that it was once considered nonsense to imagine the world was round, or that the earth revolved around the sun. Those were beliefs based on what seemed true, and were held by the majority of people.

Again, I don't think it's reasonable to object to my believing that God is relevantly distinct from a tree sprite because it seems true to me that they are relevantly distinct.

I asked what makes them distinct, I didn't criticize you for believing they are distinct. The fact that one seems real to you and the other seems crazy doesn't make what you're saying any more true or valid. The extreme craziness of tree sprites is not at all relevant and is a reductio ad absurdum. Following the same criterion for a reasonable belief, one can believe in god, gods, tree sprites, a flat earth, mermaids, flying spaghetti monsters.... the list could go on.

And perhaps I'm radically skeptical, but the truth is important to me. More important than the existence of any god or gods. I will start from a skeptical point of view and make my way to beliefs from there. If that is radical skepticism then I would wear that badge proudly.

Okay, this is my pulled out of my ass assessment of you Occam. Actually you are the first Christian that I have seen post here that makes an excellent argument, and I have been here a while (couple of years). That is assuming you are being truthful which I believe you are.

As I understand it, the basis of your defense for your faith is multiple events that were too many to be considered coincidence. It does not persuade me in the least, however, that is because I lack the details of your experiences to judge for myself. Care to share some of them? I would love for you to do that. If you don't want to do it here, I would love to talk to you through private message. 

Please send me a friend request if you are interested in the later. Thank you for sharing your views.

Mabel, I'm afraid I have a policy against sharing the details of my religious experiences on the internet. Sorry. I'd be happy to have a private discussion with you on some other topic related to the existence of God, though, if you're interested.

I will say I haven't been around on here nearly as long as some, but in my short time here I have to say your reply was the one, if not the only, non-combative reply I've seen in these forums by a current theist. If more replies were like that, we'd have far better discussions here with theists. :)

~ Rob 

Thanks.

Perhaps reality is just too much for some to handle... easier to pick the commonly accepted flying spaghetti monster of the hour, no stress, no thought, no choices.. it's already preordained by whomevers interpretation?

The responsibility for self and your own actions can be a burden if you aren't comfortable with who you are or haven't been willing to do the self reflecting and research homework necessary to fully grasp where you stand.

Then again some people are just wishy washy about any darn thing.

I looked up a High School friend on Facebook. He said the same thing of me about never REALLY having been a Christian. After all: How could a guy that had been born again, washed in the blood of the lamb, now reject it whole heartedly? What had happened to me? It's like the guy claiming to be Jesus talking to a psychiatrist telling him he isn't and both completely convinced the other is insane.

Dear Folks:

I have meet atheists that have been in fox holes also!

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