i was talking about the existence of Jesus Christ, is he real? why should i believe him? where is he now?

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I knew that Stutz, I just wasn't sure he did - we have a strange sense of humor that not everyone understands.

it was my first board here and it was nice, maybe this will be my last too.. JK

"just kidding!"

No problem with that, it was just question by a curious like me,

Theist made the claim that there is a god, it is up to them to provide the proof that he does. The proof thus so far is nothing less than childish

I responded to your post, then went back a page and realized you weren't directing it at me, so I deleted mine, in case you were wondering what's going on.

I'm going to bed now, while I'm behind.

Given that quote from Mark... I really have to wonder where exactly Christians get they homo-hatred from. It's like they have 2 rules: 1) love God, 2) love everyone else. And still they manage to get the second one wrong sooooo often.

I like this:

Couldn't this be appealed on the grounds of "cruel and unusual punishment"?

Oklahoma teen sentenced to attend church as part of probation for DUI manslaughter conviction

MUSKOGEE - Attending church on Sunday for 10 years was one of the conditions a Muskogee County judge placed on a teenager whose sentence in a manslaughter case was deferred this week for 10 years.
Click Here For the Full Article

I think I'd beg for the needle! Speaking of 10 years in prison, check THIS out:

Pakistan court sentences man to death for blasphemy

(The link is in the headline, but THIS is the paragraph you need to see:)

"'The additional session judge Azar Khan has passed a sentence on him (Shah) of capital punishment and imprisonment for 10 years under the charges of blasphemy,' Syed Zamurd Shah (no relation), the district and session judge in the northern city of Chitral, told AFP."

So how do you suppose that works - does the poor slob spend ten years in the slammer, then get executed, or do they execute him first, then throw him in a cell for a decade?

I think the kid will come up with worse crimes after the whole church thing. After all some of the worse crimes in history were sanctioned by the church.

Thomas Aquinas was of the belief that although the existence of a god cannot be proven scientifically, it is impossible to scientifically prove the non existence of a god. Athiests, when drawing upon natural law and human reasoning to explain the origin of man and the universe, must ASSUME that god does not exist because it cannot be proven by any science that a god does not exist, even Richard Dawkins admits to this.  If you are skeptical of this, i would challenge any athiest to prove that god does not exist.

Strictly speaking if religion is defined by having a belief system based on something that cannot be conclusively proven or disproven, then atheism by definition would be religion.  Atheism, by name, is the belief that God does not exist and because the non existence of God cannot be proven Atheism relies on an unproven assumption, a faith.  Atheism is often considered the polar opposite of Christianity which in a sense is truer than most believe.  While good Christians have faith in the existence of God and all doctrine that is consequential of the faith, Athiests have faith in the non existence of God and the scientific theories that rely on the non existence of God.  

What i am trying to say is that even disbelief relies on the assumption of the non existence of God and that in order to fully discern, one must be open to further assumptions in either direction be it Atheist or Theist.

One reasoning of the existence of God that i find quite compelling is Thomas Aqunas' 5 proofs.  If you are not familiar with them, i will outline them briefly.  What is interesting to note is that although they rely heavily on assumptions, they are extremely diffucult to refute, the first three at least.

1. First Mover - The motion of the universe must have been put into motion by something stationary, some call it the big bang others god.

2. First Cause - everything we know is a result of something so if you go back far enough there must rationally be something that caused everything including the big bang.

3. Something from Something Vs. Something from Nothing - Logically something must come from something, nothing cannot create something.  Back to the creation of the universe, everything in existence must have come from something, no thing spontaneously appears of no cause or creator.

4. Perfect Being - If there was no existence of a God, where would every concept of human perfection originate.  (this one is more simple to refute in that it would be non beneficial for the human species to destroy each other therefore outlining ideal human action, but still food for thought).

5. Cause for Design - Everything in existence has design and design cannot exist without a designer. (however similarily to the fouth proof it can be refuted by the fact that organisms naturally evolve in order to preserve their species.

To Be clear, these proofs do not prove the existence of the Christian God nor do they necessarily even prove the existence of a deity, but attempt to answer the question of the origin of the universe beyond what science can prove. 

Let the fireworks begin -->:) devil


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