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Permalink Reply by onyango makagutu on October 12, 2012 at 11:26am

You have set for yourself a task that I don't think anyone on this site is interested in. So you are basically saying you are an apologetic. I wish you well but I don't know who you will be correcting. All the same feel welcome and participate in the discussions and chats. 

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Permalink Reply by Israel on October 12, 2012 at 11:40am

Hey, no I'm not an apologetic. Anyways I'm sure some people are interested in what I have to say. Just the other day, I was talking to someone named Deb (I think) and 2 other people at the same time and they gave me an ear. I'll be correcting whoever misunderstands Christian principles that I understand well.

Thanks for welcoming me =]

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Permalink Reply by Diane on October 13, 2012 at 6:27am

Hi. Israel.  I think I was the one with whom you were chatting.  I enjoyed talking to you, btw.  You were respectful and seemingly earnest, not spewing fire and brimstone, able to admit what you don't know. 

The Christians I personally find dangerous are like you in a way.  I really am leery of when a Christian starts to make sense to me.  I firmly believe that the only way I could come to believe in any deity is through a) having incontrovertible proof, or b) being brainwashed.  Actually, in the first instance it wouldn't really be faith would it? 

Honestly, you lost me when you answered yes to thinking that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, never mind the yes to the other questions.  You lost all credibility.  What you believe about the age of the Earth does not fit actual scientific evidence to the contrary.    I often think about YECs and the absurdity of their claims when I am out in nature.  I live in an area where glaciers a mile thick deposited irregulars all over the place when they retreated at the end of the last ice age. 

I can understand that - it makes sense. I know that that ice age was just a fraction of a fraction of the geological time it took for Earth to form and become as it is today.  We really can't even comprehend the vast amounts of time we are talking about here.  I know about this, to the small extent I do, because I read about it.

You may not want to expose yourself to certain areas of knowledge because they might diminish your faith.  I did not want to read the Bible, but I did because I needed to know for myself what it said.  I needed to have some context for understanding Christians, for one thing, and to defend myself from the seemingly constant barrage of evangelicals in my life at that time.  It suppose I could have read it and become inspired to go down the part of following Jesus, but it had quite the opposite effect.  I think it is SCARY that anyone takes the Bible literally.  

Just as Christians often ask me to not shut the door to Jesus, I ask you to not shut the door to areas of knowledge that are contrary to what the Bible says.  You will never be able to understand from where we are coming if you don't know and understand basic scientific principles and facts.  

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on October 13, 2012 at 10:41am

As usual, well put, Diane --

Our own solar system began as a disk of dust and gas, orbiting a newly formed star. Bits of dust collided and clung to each other, and grain by grain, formed this:

-- and that certainly didn't happen in six days!

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Permalink Reply by Strega on October 13, 2012 at 3:12pm

Really breathtakingly beautiful, Arch. Truly inspirational.

(hate to be picky, but do I see nine orbit lines in the second illustration?)

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on October 13, 2012 at 4:07pm

Quite possibly - when faced with the question of whether or not to kick Pluto to the curb, I always ask myself - What would Mickey Mouse do?

(WWMMD)

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on October 13, 2012 at 6:21pm

But seriously, you look at those two pictures, and you know that there was no transformation from the upper to the lower in a day.

Further, if anyone reading this has any form of gold jewelry, you know it took much MUCH longer than that - it takes three - count 'em, three - SuperNova explosions to produce gold.

First, a star at least 1.44 times larger than our sun (known as Chandrasekhar's Limit), composed of mostly hydrogen, must burn off all of it's hydrogen, leaving hydrogen's by-product, helium, then explode its contents into the universe.

Those contents, along with dust and gas from likely other such explosions, finally condense into a second massive star, which further reduces its elements to heavier elements, explodes, mixes with still other gases to form a third star, still further reducing the elements, which explodes, allowing the remnants of that third explosion to form our star, Sol, as well as the planets, which contain the heavier elements, such as lead and gold.

We are - all of us, star stuff.

But god did that in a day, so there ya go --

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Permalink Reply by Diane on October 13, 2012 at 4:27pm

Thanks, Archyopteryx.  

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on October 13, 2012 at 5:37pm

@Diane - new pic, hope you didn't lose the dog, he was beautiful.

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Permalink Reply by Diane on October 13, 2012 at 11:04pm

Egads!  Sorry I misspelled your name.  The dog wasn't mine.  I went hiking with my friend and her dog, and Axel and I ran up to the top when my friend stopped to have a cigarette.  We posed for a quick picture and ran back down to where my friend was.  Axel is ok, though.  

I put that pic with Axel because it seemed to be a pretty good one of me, catching me in my element.  

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on October 13, 2012 at 11:11pm

I honestly didn't notice - no problem, I do it all the time. Anyway, tell Axel I think he's a good looking dog!

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Permalink Reply by Simon Paynton on October 12, 2012 at 11:32am

Of course, Israel, thanks, it sounds reasonable to me.  I'm all for inter-faith dialogue. 

I do have a genuine question about the Christian faith.  This isn't intended to catch you out or trip you up. 

How do Christians go about making moral decisions?  What goes through your head? 

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