Have women accomplished anything throughout history?
Even the most ardent historian, male or female—citing Amazons and tribal matriarchies and Cleopatra—can’t conceal that women have basically done fuck all for the last 100,000 years. Come on—let’s admit it. Let’s stop exhaustingly pretending that there is a parallel history of women being victorious and creative, on an equal with men, that’s just been comprehensively covered up by The Man. There isn’t. Our empires, armies, cities, artworks, philosophers, philanthropists, inventors, scientists, astronauts, explorers, politicians and icons could all fit, comfortably into one of the private karaoke booths in SingStar. We have no Mozart; no Einstein; no Galileo; no Ghandi. No Beatles, no Churchill, no Hawking, no Columbus. It just didn’t happen.
Nearly everything so far has been the creation of men—and a liberal, right-on denial of it makes everything more awkward and difficult in the long run. Pretending that women have had a pop at all this before but ultimately didn’t do as well as the men, that the experiment of female liberation has already happened but floundered gives strength to the belief that women simply aren’t as good as men, full stop. That things should just carry on as they are—with the world shaped around, and honouring, the priorities, needs, whims, and successes of men. Women are over, without having even begun. When the truth is that we haven’t even begun at all. Of course we haven’t. We’ll know it when we have.
~Caitlin Moran
Do you agree or disagree with the above sentiment and statements, and why or why not?
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NOTE: I'll be contrarian in the discussion, both because I find it fun, and also because echo chambers are boring.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by matt.clerke on -
What about gay men?
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Permalink Reply by Strega on -
The internet says there are loads, but I'd never heard that many of these were gay...
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Permalink Reply by Unseen on -
Casanova?
Johann Joachim Winckelmann? Not Johann Joachim Winckelmann!!!!!
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Permalink Reply by Strega on
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No shit! Extraordinary list, I have absolutely no conviction that any of it is true, mind you. Oscar Wilde, obviously - we all know that - but I had never contemplated Alexander the Great's potential gay status, for example.
Where do they find these things?
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Permalink Reply by Unseen on
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You must have been the last to find out. LOL
Never heard of Hephaestion, eh?
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Permalink Reply by Strega on
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Yes, I'm half Greek and was brought up on those myths and histories - however, I was around ten, and sexual orientation didn't mean much to me at that age, especially when there were women getting pregnant by god/bulls.
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Permalink Reply by Galen on -
Well, since none of those men would have even existed without a woman, I think it's fair to say that EVERY great accomplishment in history can be traced back to a woman :)
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Permalink Reply by Arcus on -
They wouldn't exist without men either as it takes two for that particular tango, so isn't it kinda draw?
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Permalink Reply by Femia Cools on -
Do not agree with the wording of the question/statement: anything.
In a world/culture so dominated by men, the thought or voice of a woman will not be heard or understood.
Male dominated societies, religions and cultures made women into second rate persons without a voice worth listening to. No education needed. women had to have babies and take care of them. (They often died early, because of men not aware of hygiene issues.)
Indeed, women could not contribute to history as much as men could.
Because men did not let them.
We will never know what could have been, if men had been not so narrow minded or superstitious about the potential of mothers, wives, sisters and daughters.
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Permalink Reply by Arcus on
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"the thought or voice of a woman will not be heard or understood."
So what you are saying is that women should be heard in a non-gendered language such as science. Except that they do get heard when they have something useful to say, M. Curie being the prime example, and there are a few others. But where are the masses?
"Male dominated societies, religions and cultures made women into second rate persons without a voice worth listening to."
To be fair, they made every member of those societies second class citizens. On the other hand, we are rounding 100 years of women's equal representation in voting, so why not in all spheres?
"women had to have babies and take care of them. (They often died early, because of men not aware of hygiene issues.)"
Well, this is a matter of biology, not sexism. And women weren't aware og hygiene issues either... until a man discovered it! Surprisingly, it wasn't a women, but Semmelweiss, a man, which made one of the major breakthroughs. And this in a society before which women had jealously guarded child birth for millenia.
"Indeed, women could not contribute to history as much as men could."
A fair point, but their contribution is even less than their potential impact, isn't it? And it's certainly not only positive, ref. Mary I or Alexandra, the latter of whom is most famous for her liking of huge cock....
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Permalink Reply by Kairan Nierde on -
"Indeed, women could not contribute to history as much as men could."
A fair point, but their contribution is even less than their potential impact, isn't it?
Please share with us how you have determined what the potential impact of women should have been?
And it's certainly not only positive, ref. Mary I or Alexandra, the latter of whom is most famous for her liking of huge cock....
You realize that patriarchy creates a phenomenon where history 'forgets' the accomplishments of successful women (and people of color). Lurid tales are more memorable and focusing on a woman's sexuality (rather than her life's work) is a great way to reinforce the patriarchal hierarchy.
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Permalink Reply by Arcus on
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"Please share with us how you have determined what the potential impact of women should have been?"
Well, seeing as the Jews have historically been absolutely the most suppressed, why not that level of contribution?
"You realize that patriarchy creates a phenomenon where history 'forgets' the accomplishments of successful women"
Then why do we remember quite a few accomplishments made by females? Seems like a poorly functioning system, if its intent (at least one of its intents) is to suppress female accomplishments.
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