There was something in my newspaper (uk) about Richard Dawkins having to ban ppl from his site ... I only skimmed the article but when I couldn't sleep last night had a look for myself ... Big headlines from his article in The Times ... he's comparing evolution 'deniars' to Holocaust 'deniars' ... umm well as someone who's father lost his family as a child in the camps, personally I didn't appreciate the analogy ... from my experience, ppl who are Holocaust 'deniars' (am I spelling that right?) are not only ignorant but anti-semitic/ anti-Jewish .... I lived round the corner from a family whose twin daughters told me that the Holocaust wasn't true ... when I said about my Dad they replied 'well, YOU weren't there, were you?' ....


Well I suppose those twin girls had learned their views from their parents .... I  could only take comfort in the fact that they lived in a house named 'Mobec' (no, not a cute Cornish name, but rather - unbeknownst to them - a conglomeration of the names of the former occupants ... a very Jewish Morry n Becky ....


Anyhoo I don't think most creationists have such nastiness at the bottom of their thoughts . and I don't think Richard Dawkins is going to win any 'hearts and minds' with his insensitive analogy - even though I can understand the logic.


My own mother has a sorta woolly 'G-d created the world in 7 days which was actually 7 aeons in line with evolution' type of belief ...  she would be mightily offended to be compared with Holocaust deniars (however that's spelt). 


PS  It was actually that same Mum who gave me Richard Dawkins previous book, The God Delusion.



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The comparing evolution-deniers with holocaust-deniers isn't meant to imply how evil they are, but rather how ignorant they are.

The percentage of the scientific community that doesn't believe in evolution is smaller than the percentage in the historical community who denies the holocaust.
The comparing evolution-deniers with holocaust-deniers isn't meant to imply how evil they are, but rather how ignorant they are.

Agreed. The analogy is apt for what Dawkins was plainly using it for. Denying of the obvious and of evidence is the link, not the actual atrocity of what happened in the Holocaust.
And how unwilling they are to look at and accept evidence. Is it over-the-top? Maybe a little bit. But it's apt, too.
You need to hang out with some American Creationists - pretty consistently nasty. And I don't know if Dawkins is really trying to win hearts and minds, I think he seems more dedicated to telling his perception of the truth - but I don't particularly know much about Dawkins writing so maybe he did say something about winning hearts and minds at some point and I'm all wrong about his motivations.

I don't think the analogy is meant to say anything about the holocaust specifically or those who deny the holocaust happened, it's meant to draw a parallel between situations where something is obviously a fact and people who choose to ignore the facts in favor of their own delusion. I think the analogy is probably hurtful to you because you're taking it personally, not because it was meant to be taken in that way.
Hello Jeff ... sorry if i'm a bit thick, but what is the common agenda of Holocaust deniers and evolution deniers?
I agree with Pinko Commie, denying the holocaust is a matter of convenience of belief. No one wants to 'know' that these things happened - but, it is our responsibility as humans to understand our history and respect the events which occured (we don't have to like them, we simply have to respect that they are able to understand why they are facts and look at ways to prevent it from happening again). Still, some don't want to share in that responsibility. They don't want to think about how disgustingly evil humans can be (especially in "modern" times), so they choose not to believe in it - and that grows into ACTUALLY not believing it.

In religion, people don't want to believe that they aren't serving a higher power, so they choose not to (I've run into several people like this). It's more elegant to think that some father-figure placed them here for a purpose. Many people don't like the idea that we 'came from monkeys' and they have to develop their own purpose.

I am one who doesn't like holocaust references at all. I see both sides of the religion debate using Hitler in their own light to project evil on the opposing side. Hitler's problems went far deeper than religion...and that's where it should be left. This is something both sides should agree on...

That being said, Richard Dawkins was not talking about the holocaust at all...he was simply confirming that it happened and blasting those who choose not to believe in it.
Yeah I think I agree with you John ... I really don't like ppl using Holocaust references ... mostly, it seems almost exploiting this vast suffering rather than trying to understand anything ... Richard Dawkins definitely compared holocaust deniers with evolution deniers ... yes they both would rather deny evidence than look at facts but they are not identical ppl and there is a saying that 'comparisons are odious' - I think this one is.

But then Pinko commie might be right ... I live in London and have been shielded so far from any nasty type of creationists although I have read about them so I know what you mean ;) But surely many creationists are well meaning but misguided? I mean, as I said, my own mother somehow is able to combine both creationism and evolution in her belief .. and those were the type of religious ppl I was brought up with ... and she was open minded enuf to buy me Dawkins previous book, The God Delusion - and is certainly not a Holocaust denier.

Love n peace - fancynancy xx
I lived most of my life in London. Born to a jewish family but an Atheist from an early age. I saw that money was religion and priviledges given to those with money, and I was afforded free thinking by my parents.
I realised then that you did not have to be religious tobe a good person, you were good and kind because you wanted to be. I was in London during the blitz and saw bombs destroying houses, knew then there was no god only make believe My uncle returnerd from a prison camp, well more like a skelton returned. I suppose he did it to himself. Sorry, dont think so.. Saw a newsreel where soldiers were being burnt alive, not actors. Nazi youth deny the holocaust, that answers it I think. .
This is so much like some people I mix with who believe in a god but can not give me any logic as to why. Some can deny the holocaust, so where is the proof.
Hello Elaine - appreciate your post but don't understand your last sentence 'Some can deny the holocaust, so where is the proof.' ???
I'll rephrase for her: "Some deny the Holocaust. How are they able ignore the proof?" lol
Thank you CareColeen I did mean that.
I just left out where is their proof that the Holocaust did not happen.
Doesn't bother me. No more offensive than that religious billboard comparing the "millions of babies aborted" to a holocaust.

I think some people might bristle at the statement because we've got photographs of the holocaust but we can't photograph evolution due to it being a slow process.


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