ground zero
http://rationalists.wordpress.com/2010/07/20/islamic-cultural-centr...
This is the final straw. How many died at Ground Zero. I cannot imagine how I would feel knowing that people will be praying at the very site to a god who through their belief of him had a part in this evil event,..if I had lost a loved one.
Is this the beginning of the end.
What do you think?
This is the final straw. How many died at Ground Zero. I cannot imagine how I would feel knowing that people will be praying at the very site to a god who through their belief of him had a part in this evil event,..if I had lost a loved one.
Is this the beginning of the end.
What do you think?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by elaine kilshaw on
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Permalink Reply by Reggie on -
A shining example of when the majority is wrong and why we should be thankful that the United States is a nation ruled by law, not popular opinion. Otherwise, my wife would have to stay at home on election days and keep watch over the slaves.
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Permalink Reply by Yet Another Atheist on -
I personally think this entire GZM issue is a smokescreen to hide the fact that Republicans nearly unanimously voted down a bill that would extend health benefits to first responders from 9/11.
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Permalink Reply by Reggie on
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PolitiFact rates False the statement that the new project is not a Mosque but a cultural center.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/aug/23/al-h...
Of course, they recognize the nuance that many political demagogues refuse to.
We agree with those who say it's imprecise to simply refer to the New York project as a mosque. As is clear from the organizers' comments and formal web pages, the big picture plans are for a $100 million, 15-story Muslim community center that would be open to New Yorkers of all faiths. But those comments and websites also make clear that the plans do include a "mosque." It may be a "small portion" of the overall project, but it is a part. And so when Hunt said, "This is not a mosque. It's a cultural center that has a prayer area," that's not accurate either. It's a cultural center that includes a mosque. And so we rate Hunt's comment False.
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Permalink Reply by Yet Another Atheist on
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So does that mean that YMCAs include entire churches? The distinction needs to be made between a mosque and a prayer room. It's the same distinction between a church and a prayer room.
This is NOT a mosque. At the very least, it may include a mosque, which is very different.
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Permalink Reply by Reggie on
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As a whole, it is not a mosque. But there will be a mosque there. You can't say they are not building a mosque just because the mosque is part of a larger project. That is as dishonest as claiming the whole project is "just" a mosque. However, even if the entire project were a mosque, they have the right to build it.
According to PolitiFact, the mosque is not a multi-faith prayer room. It is for Muslim prayer. That makes it a mosque. Unless there is more information I am unaware of that would suggest otherwise.
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Permalink Reply by Yet Another Atheist on
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I agree that they'd have a right to build it either way... so I guess the semantics of it don't really matter. I just feel like the right wing called it a mosque as a whole to generate as much fear and hate as possible. That's the only reason I oppose calling it solely a mosque.
Think of this way: if there was a YMCA being built somewhere, would it be honest to say they're building a church there?
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Permalink Reply by Reggie on
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I just feel like the right wing called it a mosque as a whole to generate as much fear and hate as possible. That's the only reason I oppose calling it solely a mosque.
Oh, you are correct about the right wing's use of "mosque" to instill fear. It's too bad that it is so effective. Much more so than the complex reality of it. But the real issue is not what exactly it is called, but the fact that it doesn't matter if it is a mosque or not. They have the right to build it.
Think of this way: if there was a YMCA being built somewhere, would it be honest to say they're building a church there?
You could say that there is a church within it. It depends on how people define "church". Most people see church's as stand alone buildings filled with pews. stained glass windows, and used for the sole purpose of god worship. But, a church doesn't have to fit that stereotype to be considered a church. A congregation that meets weekly in a little room in the YMCA I would consider a church by its broader meaning.
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Permalink Reply by Yet Another Atheist on
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Exactly my point: you can say it contains a church, but you can't call it the "Fifth Avenue Church" or the "Johnson District Church". ;)
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Permalink Reply by Jewelz on -
even if the entire project were a mosque, they have the right to build it.
I've said this about 497 times in the last couple days.
That difference in definitions between "mosque" and "cultural center with a mosque" doesn't change the larger issue and those constantly responding to people with "it's not a mosque, it's a cultural center" and "it's not AT ground zero, it's 2 blocks away" are unintentionally implying that it would make a difference if it were just a mosque and it would make a difference if it were a block closer.
I've greatly enjoyed reading the opinions on both sides of this issue, but it's turning into a huge semantics wank and I've started to bring this up in discussions with friends who are supporters asking "would you be on the other side if it were just a ginormous mosque?" and "is there some arbitrary line where you would find the location of a "just a mosque" structure too close to ground zero?"
Their answers have surprised me.
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