ground zero
http://rationalists.wordpress.com/2010/07/20/islamic-cultural-centr...
This is the final straw. How many died at Ground Zero. I cannot imagine how I would feel knowing that people will be praying at the very site to a god who through their belief of him had a part in this evil event,..if I had lost a loved one.
Is this the beginning of the end.
What do you think?
This is the final straw. How many died at Ground Zero. I cannot imagine how I would feel knowing that people will be praying at the very site to a god who through their belief of him had a part in this evil event,..if I had lost a loved one.
Is this the beginning of the end.
What do you think?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Yet Another Atheist on -
Thing is, when I see a minority of the population being denied basic rights that others enjoy, I feel the need to stand up and fight for them. Sure, I'm an atheist, but that doesn't mean Muslims shouldn't be allowed to build community centers when we have churches springing up every 5 seconds. Obviously, I think all religion is useless, mind-bleaching bunk, but (unfortunately) this isn't an atheist nation. ;)
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Permalink Reply by elaine kilshaw on -
I do agree YAA but in the UK we have muslims going around saying that because of their faith they are going to deal with anyone who they deem to hate and in a bad way.
I want a religion that says we love all for whoever and whatever they are,but in this world it is not possible, as hatred always rears its ugly head.
No one can be absolutely right or wrong, Please let us have a world where we are all of like minds and not to engage in evil of any kind. But while there is division this is not a possibility.
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Permalink Reply by elaine kilshaw on
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Latest on NY times
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/us/08mosque.html?th&emc=th
ANy feedback on this.
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Permalink Reply by Reggie on -
Christians love to claim persecution as much as they love to persecute others?
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Permalink Reply by Yet Another Atheist on
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They're complete hypocrites. We hear all the time about Christians assuming this nation is theirs religiously, and demanding their beliefs be made into law (banning gay marriage, abortions, etc.), which only leads me to believe that they want to transform this country into a Christian one. Yet when there's a threat of any other, sufficiently different, religion coming along, threatening their privilege of assumed authority, they cry "foul". It's absurd.
They love to claim that the Quran is a book of hate. Then what about the Bible? It's no better.
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Permalink Reply by elaine kilshaw on
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This discussion anwsers my question Why Religion at all?. Nobody agrees with each other and until the end of time no one will.
Manson said he killed because of religion.
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Permalink Reply by Jon Heim on -
I think that there are a lot of Muslims who don't buy in to the propaganda and should be respected. I'm sure no one but us atheists would have a problem if it were to be a church or a synagogue instead. In fact if your going to build a place of worship there, build more then one kind.
um...not to mention that the actual site is an old movie theater, not really that close to the actual site. but you know.
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Permalink Reply by elaine kilshaw on
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It has come to my attention that an American woman Muslim is objecting to the building of a mosque on the site, as she lost a relative in 9/11.
I will try and find this and post the article later.
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Permalink Reply by Matt on -
Yeah I actually recently read this article. This is an extremely difficult problem. Personally, I have read several article on the proposed "Ground Zero" mosque, and to me it seems like a bit too much criticism. On the one hand, it would be so much easier to be intolerant and to deny the construction of the 'mosque', and to associate the tragic events of 9/11 with all muslims. From what the articles indicate, the mosque that is currently being used by those who are campaigning to build the new one are frustrated by the fact that the current mosque is much too small to accommodate muslims on days of prayer. If you read the articles, the crowds are pushed out into the streets. I think that the Imam of the congregation simply wants a larger mosque. but I do not approve of him billing it as a 'community center'. it is not a community center. it is a mosque.
I think, if this were really an 'interfaith community center' people would not be billing it as a mosque. I certainly hope that a mosque, or any other religious construction were to be placed on the 9/11 site, as we have seen what religion is capable of.
I do not think that this 'mosque' should be built on the ground zero site, however one can also make the argument that it is not even on the ground zero site.
I think that the Imam of this muslim congregation, if he were really interested in promoting 'interfaith dialogue', perhaps he would respect the wishes of the families of 9/11???? I can't help but compare this to erecting a statue of Hirohito in Pearl Harbor!!!! I think that if any religious center has to be built there, it should be a STRICTLY NONDENOMINATIONAL place of worship. no exceptions in that respect.
I think that the Imam of that muslim congregation has said some nice things, however I do not think that he is interested in 'promoting interfaith dialogues'. It seems to me that, he just wants to build the mosque there, because the local muslim congregation needs the extra room so that they will not be forced out into the street.
So, in that sense, I think that this Imam of muslim has lied, and that in that respect, he has effectively spat in the faces of families of 9/11 by asking for tolerance and trust in order to establish a religious dialogue, but in return only serves his own selfish interests of building a larger mosque. He doesn't care about the families of 9/11, or "repairing religious tolerance". He just wants a larger mosque. Only religion could sanctify lying in order to coerce others into submission.
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Permalink Reply by Yet Another Atheist on
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Some YMCAs have prayer rooms. Does that fact make them churches? No. They're community centers.
One can make the argument that it is not on the ground zero site because it ISN'T on the ground zero site. It's two blocks AWAY.
"Respecting the wishes of the families of 9/11" in this case means bowing down to anti-Muslim fervor and demands, which goes against the First Amendment of the Constitution. They have every right to build whatever they want on the property they purchased.
If this should be a strictly nondenominational place of worship, then so should every church, synagogue, and temple in the U.S. No exceptions in that respect.
If all they wanted was a mosque, then why would they also include classrooms, an auditorium, galleries, a restaurant, a memorial to the victims of September 11, 2001, and a swimming pool and gym?
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Permalink Reply by Matt on
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I see what you are saying, but building a mosque, whether it is a 'community center' or not is still a slap in the face. the 1st amendment of the constitution states that citizens have the right to assemble peaceably, free exercise of religion, freedom of speech, freedom to petition government, and freedom of the press. so, under that, YES it is permitted to build a mosque on ground zero. HOWEVER, the 1st Amendment ALSO states that people have a right to free speech and to assemble peaceably in protest.
Given these facts, I really must respectfully disagree with your response, Yet Another Atheist, because our situation is COMPLETELY UNIQUE. this ground is completely sacred to american families, muslim or any other religion. i do not think it is respectable for anyone to think it is "alright" or "negligible" to allow certain members of one's religion to first bomb a building, using our own planes btw, and then... a few years down the road, allow other members of that same religion to build a structure, NO MATTER THE IDEA BEHIND IT, for fear of arousing ANGST and ANIMOSITY. I think, that, as Muslims, they should take responsibility for the actions of their fellow Muslims and start off, not by asking to build a temple to worship THEIR DEITY on a site in which THEY ATTACKED US, but by instead TRANQUILLY relocating somewhere else. THIS IS NOT ABOUT RACISM. NO ABOUT "RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE". this is about respecting another person's wishes. To be honest, i do not think that other places in the world are nearly as tolerant (they would not even allow this type of talk). Could you imagine, my friend, how much hatred would be unleashed, if, after the Gaza Strip War of 2008-2009, the Israelis built synagogues on land where Muslims had been killed by Israelites????? OH, THE OUTROAR! No, you can make the argument that these American Muslims are not related to Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hizbullah, The Revolutionary Guard, or any other radical Muslim groups. but it is the burden of association that makes this so outrageous. I really have a hard time believing that you, who proclaim yourself to be an Atheist, could be so intolerant of Christians in America to even think that this is due to a Christian, bigoted majority of Americans. Only in America could a humiliation like this be allowed.
it is so obvious that they could have relocated to another section of town. apparently the building that was bought was approx. 5 million dollars. with that money, they could have afforded some other building somewhere else.
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